I apologise if this is the wrong community to post this in, I wasn’t sure which one was ideal.
I’m suffering a difficult decision of choosing between a Framework laptop or a Macbook Air (M1, 2020). I really like the ethical principles of Framework, i.e. you actually own it and can repair it any time, leading to an increased longevity. At the same time, I have heard people claim Macbook is superior in almost all aspects (especially battery life).
I know both Apple and Microsoft are greedy CorpGiants, but seeing as I have an iPhone, I figure it would be easier using a Mac? But then again, the prices really are not worth it, especially considering it costs a lot to repair them. I have 0 experience with Linux, and this computer will be used at school, so I suppose it stands between macOS and Windows.
I guess I just want some advice? Or some guidance and comparisons. Is 8GB enough for a Framework laptop? The 16GB version costs nearly as much as the Mac I’m looking at, hence my hesitance. If anybody has some experience using Framework and / or Macbook, I would love to hear about it. What are some pros and cons? Which people are better off with FW and Mac respectively?
Thank you!
*Edit, forgot to mention: I need a Swedish keyboard on the computer, and Framework apparently only offers English. This is the largest obstacle preventing me from leaning towards FW.
I am not very familiar with framework but I did switch from macbooks to a dell gaming laptop years ago and I am so glad I did.
The macs are ridiculously expensive, and even if you break just the charger it costs a lot to replace. My laptop now I was able to get for nearly half the price and it runs games and programs that I used in college better than the mac ever could.
Every mac I ever owned completely died in 4-6 years of purchase. They’re basically guaranteed to not last a long time. My guess is you’re better off with getting a framework
There are plenty of reasons not to like apple products, but the 4-6 years for macbooks is unheard of. There’s a reason I was able to sell my 2015 macbook for 60% of its purchase price in 2020. They keep chugging along, built physically strong, with great battery management that means it doesn’t degrade much over time. And with launch of apple silicon, the performance of them is even better. They won’t game, but for a certain type of person they are a good choice. And for other people they’re a bad choice, that they’ll make just for the sake of social status or whatever.
- Not a apple fanboy, see my other comment.
My experience may be too anecdotal to take into account, so I understand not caring about my specific experience. But I do think it’s a good idea to take life span into account, and from a quick google search the average lifespan of a Macbook air is generally 5-7 years (so really not far off).
Just something to consider that since parts aren’t replaceable, OP would have to pay the full amount of a new laptop at that time
I wouldn’t buy either.
There are other laptops besides macbooks and framework laptops.
I liked the lenovos in recent years, linux just worked out of the box, swapped the wifi-chip to support 6E last year, and upgraded the memory, super easy to do.
Was surprised how cheap these wifi-chips are, cost like 20$ for the intel ax210.
But the current lineup is too expensive for what they offer… Maybe buy a used one. (in general)
I support this argument. When comparing between FW and Mac, FW comes out on top for me. But do I need a high powered laptop? How often will I use it to its full ability? Most universities provide clusters to run your processing intensive jobs. If you are forced to use your own resources, using cloud resources is often cheaper than buying an expensive specced out laptop. I think the only justifications for buying a specced out laptop is when you are actively doing CAD, video editing or gaming. For everything else, a typical 500 USD laptop should be sufficient.
Apple does flat-rate repairs for Mac laptops that haven’t been damaged by impact or liquid damage. If they can perform a repair cheaper in-store, they usually will do so, but I am going on old info from being a repair tech at an Apple Store a decade ago. You could ask an Apple Store employee to get the cost of flat-rate repairs from a technician and then you’d know what you’re potentially looking at. I’ve owned many Mac laptops and only needed a repair on one (and that was still under warranty).
I’m a Mac nerd who’s fascinated by Framework laptops. I don’t think either decision would be wrong. I haven’t got to test drive one, so I can’t offer an informed opinion beyond what I’ve said here.
The biggest difference between these two will be the operating system. Although I strongly suspect that the MacBook is a better machine, that won’t matter as much as which OS you want to use. Unless the swappable ports are necessary in which case you already know the answer.
I think you want the MacBook. I like the ethical principles behind Framework too, but they come with a learning curve. You might only save money if you fix it yourself, are you willing to learn to do that? It will have to run Windows, do you know whether it will run Windows 11, will you have you install and configure it yourself, if so do you know how to do that?
Meanwhile, if you buy a MacBook it will last a good seven or eight years before you need to replace it, at least if you get the 16 GB of RAM (but maybe 8 is enough, 8 has been the standard for like a decade already, maybe software developers finally reached the point where their objective is to do more with less). Sure sometimes Apple comes up with bad hardware like the butterfly-switch keyboard but if you’re getting hardware that’s basically the same as last year check out the news and reviews, anything that bad and people will be talking about it. Also if you buy a MacBook, Apple tries its best that everything just works. The easiest learning curve there is. You may pay a premium in price up front but over seven or eight years you might end up spending less.
For the first year of ownership, if it ever has a problem (that wasn’t clearly caused by you dropping it) you can make an appointment to drop it off at an Apple Store and just pick it up when they fix it. You can buy AppleCare to extend that year into three years. If you’re a resident college student your school’s computer support center might be an authorized repair center and fix it. With a MacBook you are unlikely to incur any repair costs ever so long as you don’t drop the damn thing.
So you have to decide what sort of person you are. I’ve been building and taking apart computers for years, I’ve been a Linux user since 1999, and sometimes I want a project like a Framework to tinker with, but sometimes (especially when I went to college) I want something dependable that just works without having to fuss with it, and that’s Apple. That’s what you’re ultimately choosing, and whether that’s worth the (up-front, at least) price premium.
You nailed it here. It’s all about the willingness of the user to maintain it.
The integration part from OP: I don’t understand why anybody wants to be locked into a single ecosystem. If the company pivots/does something weird, you have a LOT of history you have to untangle. Google for instance.
But in spite of that, Macs just work without fuss. And I say this as a mac hater for years, and now forced to use one for work.
On the integration bit, I love that I can copy a URL on my phone and paste it into my browser on my Mac. I love that I can copy a meme on my Mac and paste it into a messaging app on my phone.
Yeah, I got a Windows laptop and couldn’t do that as easily anymore and like, it really bothered me that this service that I’d only been using for a few years that everyone else gets along without was suddenly unavailable. It’s like parking at a parking meter and needing quarters now.
Framework hasn’t been around that long, and is more likely to go out of business than Google or Apple. Even if the design of its parts is open-source (I’m not sure whether they are), you’d have to find someplace to make the parts for you. Also how many businesses have started with open-source stuff then taken over by people who in order to make them profitable make them go proprietary?
btw you can get apple care indefinitely if you pay annually. I’ve decided throught his mechanism I’ll essentially lease my macbook. Paying $100/year for the peace of mind that they’ll fix anything thats wrong with the laptop until I decide to ditch it. Its probably worth keeping an eye on the used market to decide when its economically optimal to just drop the applecare and just replace the laptop in the event of it needing to be repaired.
Worth noting, you may have to be a stern self-advocate to get certain things fixed because they will sometimes pull some bullshit excuse that its not covered under applecare/warranty because of xyz, and xyz isn’t even true (see Louis Rossmann / CBC News videos)
So you pay extra for your laptop, then pay for another third of a laptop or so, before you have to fight with somebody on the phone to get what you paid for? That’s certainly a plan.
See my other comment for more context, I’m not saying it’s a good thing, or advocating for people to do it, but it is what I do… for reasons.
