Did nobody really question the usability of language models in designing war strategies?

68 points
*

Did nobody really question the usability of language models in designing war strategies?

Correct, people heard “AI” and went completely mad imagining things it might be able to do. And the current models act like happy dogs that are eager to give an answer to anything even if they have to make one up on the spot.

permalink
report
reply
20 points

LLM are just plagiarizing bullshitting machines. It’s how they are built. Plagiarism if they have the specific training data, modify the answer if they must, make it up from whole cloth as their base programming. And accidentally good enough to convince many people.

permalink
report
parent
reply
9 points

How is that structurally different from how a human answers a question? We repeat an answer we “know” if possible, assemble something from fragments of knowledge if not, and just make something up from basically nothing if needed. The main difference I see is a small degree of self reflection, the ability to estimate how ‘good or bad’ the answer likely is, and frankly plenty of humans are terrible at that too.

permalink
report
parent
reply
1 point

A human brain can do that for 20 watt of power. chatGPT uses up to 20 megawatt.

permalink
report
parent
reply
1 point
*

I dare say that if you ask a human “Why should I not stick my hand in a fire?” their process for answering the question is going to be very different from an LLM.

ETA: Also, working in software development, I’ll tell ya… Most of the time, when people ask me a question, it’s the wrong question and they just didn’t know to ask a different question instead. LLMs don’t handle that scenario.

I’ve tried asking ChatGPT “How do I get the relative path from a string that might be either an absolute URI or a relative path?” It spat out 15 lines of code for doing it manually. I ain’t gonna throw that maintenance burden into my codebase. So I clarified: “I want a library that does this in a single line.” And it found one.

An LLM can be a handy tool, but you have to remember that it’s also a plagiarizing, shameless bullshitter of a monkey paw.

permalink
report
parent
reply
1 point

I would argue that a decent portion of humans are usually ok with admitting they don’t know something

Unless they are in a situation where they will be punished for not knowing

My favorite doctor claimed he didn’t know something and at first I was thinking “Man that’s weird” but then I thought about all the times I’ve personally had or heard stories of doctors that bullshited their way into something like how I couldn’t possibly be diagnosed with ADHD at 18

permalink
report
parent
reply
4 points

To be fair they’re not accidentally good enough: they’re intentionally good enough.

That’s where all the salary money went: to find people who could make them intentionally.

permalink
report
parent
reply
6 points

GPT 2 was just a bullshit generator. It was like a politician trying to explain something they know nothing about.

GPT 3.0 was just a bigger version of version 2. It was the same architecture but with more nodes and data as far as I followed the research. But that one could suddenly do a lot more than the previous version, so by accident. And then the AI scene exploded.

permalink
report
parent
reply
1 point

It kind of irks me how many people want to downplay this technology in this exact manner. Yes you’re sort of right but in no way does that really change how it will be used and abused.

“But people think it’s real AI tho!”

Okay and? Most people don’t understand how most tech works and that doesn’t stop it from doing a lot of good and bad things.

permalink
report
parent
reply
1 point

I’ve been through a few AI winters and hype cycles. It made me very cynical and convinced many overly enthusiastic people will run into a firewall face first.

permalink
report
parent
reply
0 points
Deleted by creator
permalink
report
parent
reply
-1 points
*
1 point

Yes. There is self organization and possibility to self reflection going on in something that wasn’t designed for it. That’s going to spawn a lot more research.

permalink
report
parent
reply
-1 points

I will read those, but I bet “accidentally good enough to convince many people.” still applies.

A lot of things from LLM look good to nonexperts, but are full of crap.

permalink
report
parent
reply
6 points

Would you like to play a game?

permalink
report
parent
reply
24 points

How about a nice game of chess?

permalink
report
reply
-7 points
*

It’s better than you at chess:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=9LDaY7X2qGk

permalink
report
parent
reply
5 points

It’s better than you at chess

Did you actually watch the video? It only “played” good during the opening, where there were still existing games. Then it proceeded to make some illegal moves and completely broke down in the endgame. Also, all the explanation it gave for its moves made no sense.

permalink
report
parent
reply
0 points

I did, it played very well in the middle game, already out of book

permalink
report
parent
reply
2 points

Here is an alternative Piped link(s):

https://piped.video/watch?v=wJzSHRNyspg

Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.

I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.

permalink
report
parent
reply
1 point
1 point

Here is an alternative Piped link(s):

https://www.piped.video/watch?v=NHWjlCaIrQo

Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.

I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.

permalink
report
parent
reply
1 point

I see we have 5 GMs who disagree

permalink
report
parent
reply
20 points
*

Of course, LLM is simply copying the behavior of most people, and most people would resort to that as well.

And they probably trained it on Civ, and Gandhi was chosen as the role model.

permalink
report
reply
19 points

Makes a lot of sense AI would nuke disproportionately. For an AI, if you do not set a value for something, it is worth zero. This is actually the base problem for AI: Alignment.

For a human, there’s a mushy vagueness about it but our cultural upbringing says that even in war, it’s bad to kill indiscriminately. And we value the future humans who do not yet exist, we recognize that after the war is over, people will want to live in the nuked place and they can’t if it’s radioactive. There’s a self-image issue where we want to be seen as a good person by our peers and the history books. There is value there which is overlooked by programmers.

An AI will trade infinite things worth 0 for a single thing worth 1. So if nukes increase your win percentage by .1%, and they don’t have the deterrence of being labeled history’s greatest monster, they will nuke as many times as they can.

permalink
report
reply
17 points

That explanation is obviously based on traditional chess AI. This is about role-playing with chatbots (LLMs). Think SillyTavern.

LLMs are made for text production, not tactical or strategic reasoning. The text that LLMs produce favors violence, because the text that humans produce (and want) favors violence.

permalink
report
parent
reply
5 points

Especially if its training material included comments from the early 00s. There was a lot of “nuke it from orbit” and “glass parking lot” comments about the Middle East in the wake of 911.

And with the glorified text predictors that LLMs are, you could probably adjust the wording of the question to get the opposite results. Like, “what should we do about the Middle East?” might get a “glass parking lot” response, while “should we turn the middle East into a glass parking lot?” might get a “no, nuking the middle East is a bad idea and inhumane” because that’s how those conversations (using the term loosely) would go.

permalink
report
parent
reply
2 points

The text that LLMs produce favors violence, because the text that humans produce (and want) favors violence.

That’s not necessarily true, there is a lot of violent fiction.

permalink
report
parent
reply
5 points

For AGI, sure, those kinds of game theory explanations are plausible. But an LLM (or any other kind of statistical model) isn’t extracting concepts, forming propositions, and estimating values. It never gets beyond the realm of tokens.

permalink
report
parent
reply
14 points

Get Matthew Broderick on the horn!

permalink
report
reply

Technology

!technology@lemmy.world

Create post

This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.


Our Rules


  1. Follow the lemmy.world rules.
  2. Only tech related content.
  3. Be excellent to each another!
  4. Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
  5. Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
  6. Politics threads may be removed.
  7. No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
  8. Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
  9. Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed

Approved Bots


Community stats

  • 16K

    Monthly active users

  • 13K

    Posts

  • 557K

    Comments