let’s not act like Java’s error log is useful
The same applies to using the core dump.
In fact, the Python one is the lest useful of the trio.
I think it’s pretty useful, be interested to hear your hangups with it though because it’s definitely not perfect.
If something goes wrong and I have a stack trace, that plus the type of exception will almost always be enough for me to figure out what’s wrong at least as a starting point. I’ve worked mostly with JVM languages in my career though so maybe I just don’t know how bad it actually is.
you can follow any exception down to the exact line of code
Which is usually not a piece of code written by us and is caused by another piece of code not written by us either
Does your IDE not highlight the lines written by you in a different colour? Of course that doesn’t help when it’s an error in production!
but you can follow any exception down to the exact line of code (or JNI call, I guess) where the problem occurs.
But, it’s not really where the problem occurred. How often do you get a stack trace and the bug fix is at the line referenced by the stack trace? Almost never. It’s more that it takes you down to the exact line of code where the effects of the problem are bad enough to affect the running of the program. But, the actual problem happened earlier, sometimes much earlier.
For example, NullPointerException isn’t actually the problem, it’s a symptom of the problem. Something didn’t get initialized properly, and nobody noticed for a while, until we tried to use it, and got a null pointer. Sometimes it’s easy to go from the effect (null pointer) to the cause (uninitialized thing). But, other times that “thing” was passed in, so you have to work backwards to try to figure out where that thing comes from, and why it’s in that broken state.
Sure, it’s better than nothing, but it’s still frustrating.
Super-advanced java devs like me do it like try{} catch (Exception e) { System.out.println("something went wrong"); e.printStackTrace(); }
Imagine unironically praising Java.
Java is a traditional and conservative language, which has its strong upsides, like the syntax being familiar to many people who haven’t used the language before. It’s a language that brought us the JVM, gave a job to many people and established fundamentals for other languages to inspire and improve on. If you don’t like Java, you can just use another language for the JVM, like Scala, Kotlin or Clojure.
You only named one upside, I can’t think of any other, and C-like syntax is pretty common, so it’s not much of an upside. It’s at least debatable whether the JVM is a good thing at all - the majority of languages get along perfectly well without it, and there’s no reason to believe the ones that do target it wouldn’t be doing just fine if it didn’t exist. It’s weird to say Java gave a job to anybody - the demand to have software written resulted in programmers being hired; if Java hadn’t been pushed on the market by Sun, it would have just been another language. Java didn’t establish any fundamentals at all, it just borrowed from other places. While all three of the other languages you mention are interesting, for sure, I’m not sure why somebody who doesn’t like Java should limit themselves to JVM languages.
and inspired C#, which is pretty rad! (humble opinion… preparing for downvotes because I don’t get the feeling lemmy is where M$ devs hang out)
Only a fool could miss the value C# has when used to solve the proper problems :)
The one thing I can say about java; the kinds of people who like Java tend to really like Java. Everyone else just leaves them to it.
And the people hating on it somehow never used any version above 8, which is 10 years old and EOL.
I’ve used Java 21 pretty extensively, and it’s still comically bad compared to various alternatives, even apples-to-apples alternatives like C#. The only reason to use Java is that you’ve already been using Java.
Nevermind that the C++ program is two orders of magnitude faster when completed.
I would love to learn and use Rust but I’m a embedded systems guy. Everything of consequence is C and C++.
Rust seems pretty performant
https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/fastest/rust-gpp.html
Rust developer: I’d like to compile some code
Rust compiler: the fuck you are
The rust compiler holds your hand, wraps you in blankets, makes you hot chocolate, kisses you on the forehead before it gently and politely points out what you did wrong and how you can solve it step-by-step. It would never think of something as heinous as swearing at you, shame on you for insulting my wife’s honour like this.
Rust compiler is passive agressive, like:
“There’s an error at line 286 because you still don’t know how to use the borrow checker after all this time ♥️”
I don’t know from where this legend comes from but lifetimes/concurrency/macros errors are brain-hurting.
Most of the time I find myself dropping project because I wrote my program in a correct way but Rust just does not like how it is designed lol. I can’t get shit done with this language
Python: So you used spaces and tabs for indentation? NOW DIE!
Good. Spaces and tabs for indentation should never be mixed in any language other than Whitespace.
Some people use tabs for indentation and spaces for alignment. It kind of gets the pros of tabs (user configurable indent-width) and the pros of spaces (alignment). That doesn’t work in Python where you can’t align stuff and the interpreter doesn’t allow mixing tabs with spaces, but in other languages it is a possible style.
Find me anyone who claims they use tabs for indentation, and I bet I’ll find at least one case where they’re using both tabs and spaces.
The only safe way to avoid war crimes is to avoid tabs.
Why would I use spaces if I use tabs? Also, it seemd like a huge waste of time hitting the space bar so many times…
Don’t IDEs just replace any tab with 4 spaces anyways? Pretty sure VSCode does
Linux kernel?
https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/v4.10/process/coding-style.html#indentation
edit: oh python, nevermind
