This is a win for consumers, touch screens are bloody awful when driving and take away far too much of your concentration
IMO the capacititive buttons with no feedback are even worse than the touch screen. at least with the touch screen, you will likely have a colored UI element on screen to press. with the cars that replace all the buttons with capacitive buttons with no feedback, theyre all the same color.
I’d be fine with one that works like the Taptic engine on iPhones or how ever the trackpad on my Macbook does. It’s a solid surface with no moving parts but it clicks when you press it and it feels 100% the same as pressing a physical button. It’s way different than haptic feedback done with just the vibrator motor.
That doesn’t work well in a car though. It works in a phone because you’re holding it, or a trackpad because you’re putting a lot of pressure on it. In a car it’s already shaking from the engine, road, etc. Plus those taps are generally much shorter and lighter and less likely to feel the vibration.
no feedback? 🤔
either the button or an indicator lights up or you see/hear what the button is supposed to activate or stop
*haptic feedback. The touch and press should be two different actions, not the same action. Otherwise, you need to look at a button to know where it is and if it did what it was supposed to do, which distracts you from driving.
Touchscreens are not that much better in this regard, IMO
I feel like I’m the only one here who is driving a car and not a spaceship. What’s there to interact with while you’re driving? Key multimedia buttons are already on the wheel.
It’s actually one of my biggest gripes …. Washer and single wipe are on a control stalk but wiper speed is on touch screen.
I think the theory is that wipers are automatic so you don’t usually need to control them manually, but that automation doesn’t work very well or maybe the rain sensor doesn’t work very well
Temperature control or defrost
In my Subaru, hvac is three large distinctive knobs I can use without looking. In my Tesla, it’s more automatic so I need to change it less, but it’s all in touch screen menus
Cherish that Subaru, because it’s not that way in them anymore. At least, not in ours, which was purchased in 2021. Now hvac is all touch screen; it’s awful.
I have a 2024 Subaru and the A/C contols are on the screen now as well. The temp control and defrost are still buttons though, so while I would prefer physical buttons, the current setup is manageable and I’ve gotten used to it. I just make sure to set everything before driving, then use the physical temp controls to adjust when needed.
Now im imagining a spaceship with all the controls only on one big touchscreen
Imagine what happens one morning when you’re having your morning coffee while walking to the big screen. You suddenly slip, and the coffee mug hits the display, decorating it with a spider web of cracks and a splatter of coffee. I hope you can make it to the next space station using nothing but voice commands.
I do agree with you, though why not just not buy cars which have touch screen controls? You don’t need legislation to filter your purchases.
You do though. Without legislations, cars wouldn’t have safety features by default like crumple zones, airbags etc. Without legislations, companies could do whatever they want to pad their bottom line. You need laws to define what is and isn’t acceptable, especially when it comes to safety.
Before we started legislating car safety, more often, if you got in a crash at speed, you would be either dead or seriously injured. It was not uncommon for a front-end collision to shove the entire steering column into, in some cases THROUGH, people’s ribcages because there was no shock absorption. “Defensive driving” - avoiding a collision at all costs - was taught mostly because of this sort of problem.
I’ll speak to the effectively of modern safety engineering myself - I was involved in two serious accidents within the past two years that, were I in a vehicle without safety features, would’ve left me dead or crippled for life. One, my Jeep spun out on a patch of wet road and got slammed by two other vehicles in a pinball situation - airbags deployed and I was left with some soreness and a thoroughly-wrecked vehicle. The other, my work van got T-boned by a semi truck at speed while crossing an intersection - once again, the airbags deployed, the seatbelt locked me in place, and the fact that the rear of the vehicle was designed to squish in on itself saved me from, at the very least, a severe case of whiplash, and more than likely some severe head injuries.
What’s funny is thay Adam Smith predicted all of our late stage capitalism before Marx and Engles were even born. He warmed that leaving capitalists to their own devices would destroy the economy, but instead he is regarded as the father of free marker capitalism by morons who never even read* Wealth of Nations. *
The hand was fine until some point for most purposes, just like Newtonian physics were fine.
It did work as expected before that. The funniest thing is that the Soviet system started smelling of piss at the same time.
So libertarian and marxist views on economics were both like “now our enemy’s flaws are not much worse than our own, but it will get apocalyptic for them and we’ll win”, and somewhere in 60s it started getting apocalyptic for both. Damn funny.
I won’t. And I don’t need legislation to filter my purchases. I need legislation to filter the number of drivers using a touchscreen behind me on the highway.
As Teslas and cars like it become more popular (especially in the EV space), more automakers will be adding touch screens. A lot of Fords new cars have them for instance. I was in a Hyundai rental a few months ago and it has a touch screen. I personally think it’s a trend that will at some point be checked by the NHTSA or similar because they already know interacting with a phone slows reaction times, is distracting, and contributes to accidents. Why putting what is essentially a larger version of a smart phone on the dash should be better somehow is a question I’ve had since Tesla first started doing it.
Touch screens should not be used for any controls needed to operate a car. You can’t use them without taking your eyes off the road.
Technically the only thing you’re allowed to fiddle with, while driving, is what you can operate from the steering wheel. You’re not supposed to fiddle with radio, AC etc. from the center console while driving even if it’s physical buttons.
I know people don’t drive like this, but you’re only allowed to take your hands off the steering wheel for changing gears if driving a manual, otherwise it’s two hands on there at all times…technically
If you read the article this is specifically about things needed to operate the car. Radios and AC or whatever is fine, but car manufacturers are starting to move things actually needed like turn signals into touch controls, and that is not okay.
Yes touch controls, but the comment I replied to mentioned touch screens (so usually the centre console), which only contains thing you don’t really need to manage while driving.
Clarify allowed. Is it actually illegal in the EU to turn on the radio or air conditioning while driving unless the buttons allow you to do it from the steering wheel?
It differs from country to country, but where I live you can technically be fined for it. You will also fail your drivers test if you do it.
This differ by countries. Here I’m required by law to operate the car as needed to operate it safely.
If the cloud vanish, I am allowed to put sunglasses, if I get vapor on my windshield I am allowed to push the button to remove it and so on.
But you have to do it safely and smartly. If you get in an accident that you would have been able to prevent otherwise, you may be found at fault. Even if you didn’t cause it.
The wording is probably similar here, but very few critical systems are not controllable from the steering wheel.
Wipers, volume, AC, cruise control are all controlled from the steering wheel of modern cars, there’s really not anything you need to do from the centre console to drive safely. If it’s not a critical system, you shouldn’t be using it, physical buttons or not.
Phew im good then, my car weighs 1 ton so i can just drive with one hand right?
You should have configured your AC before you started driving.
I haven’t had windows fog up during a drive spontaneously since forever ago when AC became standard in even cheap vehicles since they dry the air.
Suspect it depends on where you live, but you’re not wrong.
I think I’ve driven a million kilometres by now, it’s all become so fucking boring and second nature, that you start really being sloppy and distracted. Because you gained so much experience, you start to (unconciously) overestimate your skills.
But the two hands thing really is necessary for if you hit something slippy or need to make an unexpected manoeuvre. The risks of driving are incredibly low, but if shit does hit the fan you’re in for a world of trouble if you’re doing something else.
Touch screen, Vibration feedback/Color change or not, means that you have to look at what your hand is doing and not on the road.
A physical button means you can keep your eyes on the road and find the right button with easy.
So let’s be honest. At this point, touch screens are chosen by car makers because cost and not design. So essentially, safety is less important than cost for the car makers.
You can find a large volume knob without taking your eyes off the road or press the next track/station button. We are not asking to configure a new Bluetooth connection while driving.
Yes to the Volume Knob. The next button or even worse the play button, i cant.
I can as all the buttons are in a row. Same for the AC and heater controls. I pretty much know them by heart so it takes a fraction of a second to glance where to roughly put my finger, and then I can count them out by feel while looking at the road.
That image, while not as bad as a touchscreen, is still a pretty poor design. So many uniform buttons so close still require most people to look. Buttons should be clustered and/or have slighty different shape so you can tell by touch which one you’re about to press…
Channel change and volume control are all physical buttons on my steering wheel. All feel, no look. To me, that’s the best way it can be. The only time that isn’t useful is if I’m out of town and presets don’t work. For those situations, I’m generally streaming ahead of time.
Ideally, a well designed physical button wont need any visual confirmation to push or tell if it’s already toggled
Think old school hazard lights, horn or turn signal stalks with clicking noise. You dont need to look at it at all to toggle them, or confirm button is depressed or activated. You can tell by auditory confirmation or haptically
It amuses me to no end how here on Lemmy, with our concentration of computer nerd types, absolutely HATES touch screens in cars.
But to be fair, I think everybody who reviews cars says they hate them too.
Enjoying tech is one thing, wanting touchscreens everywhere is another. If they were so cool as an input device, all the cool kids would have ditched their mechanical keyboards from their desks.
Maybe the ubiquity of smart phones and all the functionality packed in to them has created a “touch screen == high tech” association in the general public.
But those of us who work with tech rather than just consuming it know the difference between functionality and UI. And we use nice physical interfaces like mouse + kb to interact with various tech all day, even if we use our phones too.
I have a love/hate relationship with phone touch screens. On the one hand it enables us to have controls that would be impossible on a phone, like selecting a point on a map, infinite variety of button controls, etc. On the other hand I can’t tell you how many times I’ve barely brushed the screen by accident and the damn thing is off doing something I didn’t want. “NO! DON’T SHUT OFF THE APP YOU…sigh”
Yep, physical input devices all the way. I literally just upgraded my computer from an Aya neo (touch screen only), to a GPD Win 4 specifically to have more physical inputs. While the Win 4 is also a handheld gaming pc (that is even smaller than the Aya), it has a slide out keyboard and an optical mouse sensor, which has honestly made so much of a difference in being able to use the device. Even just simple things like scrolling through Steam has become easier, never mind situations that involve any sort of typing.
I still love my Aya though, things a tank.
It’s not the first time someone comes up with the next great thing that ends up being a user interface disaster. Light pens (w/ link for the younger crowd) come to mind.
Ooof. I remeber using light pens in the 80s at a dumb terminal at my local library to find books. It was painful…
Oh boy, forgot about those. Every school library used one to read a barcode.
I never thought it would bother me, until I actually sat in a car where everything was dependent on software the first time.
At first I thought I was just getting old. But it dawned on me that relying on software to fucking roll down the windows or starting the car doesn’t feel too good.
(It was also an extreme jump in technology for me because the last car I drove before that was an old Corsa around the year ~2005.)
Because they are stupidly dangerous. The reason physical controls work is because you can memorize where they are and touch them without looking. With the touch screen you have to loo EVERY TIME you want to do anything, and that’s an opportunity to not notice something on the road and end up in an accident.
As an IT guy I have a case of “familiarity breeds contempt” when it comes to tech. A lot of it feels unnecessary and overcomplicates things and increases the chance of a failure.
In IT the failures are the reason there is an industry - to some degree - and a feature of systems, so they require large numbers of staff to deploy and maintain. Quite similar to the ICE automobile historically in that regard. So the cars impact is now not just manufacture of parts , local mechanics for repair, but also buildings of software engineers, IT professionals, the cloud engineers, the cloud infrastructure itself and so on. Of course that isn’t necessarily exclusive to EVs, or even to just the auto industry.
There are so many things that can go wrong with software where in mission critical situations like cars electricity is the preference
Also tracking comes with that software… nerd types (like me) hate that type of stuff. I think tracking data like that should be banned and is the reason why I won’t buy a new car until that happens
- Safety implications(especially distractions part)
- Economic and owninership implications
- https://xkcd.com/2030/
There is no discernible difference to me between using a builtin touchscreen and a phone. If one is distracted driving, then so should the other. You have to take your eyes off the road to use both, and with physical controls, I might glance it it but most of the operation of them is done by braille. If I pressed a button, I know I pressed a button and I pressed the right one, I don’t have to look back at it to know that. And if I have to follow it up with another action, my hand already knows where that control is relative to the one I just pressed.
The only thing I could live with on touchscreen is music or diagnostics since neither are particularly necessary when you’re in the act of driving.
The difference for me is that my phone is sitting in a holder stuck to the windscreen and looking at it means I’m only slightly looking away from the road, so I will still see movement in my peripheral vision.
By contrast, a large touchscreen in the middle of the dash necessarily means taking my eyes entirely off the road and probably also adjusting to the brightness of the display.
Neither are great, but one is worse than the other
I’ve hated touchscreens on everything since forever, and have been shouting into the darkness about how stupid they are in cars since the idea was first introduced. I think most nerds have been doing the same for a long time. Touchscreen are only good for mindless tapping on unimportant things, everything else needs dedicated controls.
Time and place. Do I want everything on a touchscreen at home? More compact and allows more options. Yes.
While I’m trying to fumble for a control when I’m driving a 2000 lb deathtrap at 55 MPH? No.
Touch screens are so dumb.
- AC controls, control surface heating heating/cooling (steering wheel, seat etc)
- Volume controls
- Turns, wipers, lights
- Fog lights
Basically everything you might touch during the drive should be physical.
Tesla for a very long time had wiper speed on the touch screen. Wipers were supposed to be automatic so they didn’t provide physical controls. But of course auto wipers don’t work all the time and Tesla’s camera detector is particularly bad. They since changed the steering button to bring up touch control.
Tesla routes pretty much everything through the center console. I’m surprised they haven’t tried to route the blinkers through it.
It’s because their wiring system basically just daisy chains everything together with network cable. So it’s a lot less cabling, because they aren’t running six wires for six different systems. But it also means that when one system fails, they all fail in a cascade because everything behind that system in the chain is also affected.
That’s why automakers have traditionally used individual wires for each system, because they have prioritized safety over easier wiring; You don’t want your airbags to fail just because your wipers are having an issue, for instance. So each system is essentially isolated to its own wiring.
Tesla is a good example of people not understanding why things are done a certain way. Elon just saw modern wiring harnesses and went “lol that’s dumb just use network cables.” And on the surface it sounds fine, because it’s less wiring. But it fails to understand why each system is wired independently. And now Teslas have frequent issues with cascading system failures.
It’s because their wiring system basically just daisy chains everything together with network cable
That’s the case in all modern cars beginning in the 90s: Everything that’s not directly mechanical is on the CAN bus. Not every single button individually, but button assemblies (the steering wheel counts as one), there’s no wire going just for the blinkers through the wiring harness it’s connected to the same bus that also carries signals for the brake lights.
Capacitive buttons are simply cheaper than mechanical ones, also, too many automotive designers seem to have no concept of haptics and UX they’re in it for the sleek curves. Or, well, no concept of haptics that isn’t about how satisfying the door closes, they still get that one right.
