So this “grand cosmic plan” seems to involve a lot of everyone having to tell god how great he is every day… Sounds like a certain deity has some crippling self confidence issues
The seraphim, the highest order of angels and those closest to God (at least in the Christian interpretation) only exist to tell God how great he is:
six-winged beings that fly around the Throne of God crying “holy, holy, holy”.
He’s paying some dudes just to hang around and polish his ego.
The argument of the cosmic plan is the reasons are beyond human understanding
The child that died slowly and painfully from a horrible disease, died for a reason. God willfully did/allowed it, but for a reason we just are unable to understand. So to a thiest this meme doesn’t make sense.
Mind you I don’t believe in this stuff but these kind of jabs are just preaching to the athiest choir.
IF- and this ‘if’ is doing a lot of work here, god exists… then the ‘plan’ is to LARP as the White Knight.
remember, the whole sin thing started with Adam and Even in the garden. any one who has ever raised kids, or pets more interesting than a yeast starter… knows that you put two pets in a yard, tell them they can do whatever, except eat from two plants…
… they’re gonna eat from two plants.
Original sin was a setup. When a child burns their hand on the stove you told them not to touch, you don’t condemn them to hell for it. Also, why did you leave the stove on and leave the kid unattended? Also, why would you punish their descendants for the sins of their parents? Also, why did you invent hell, the stove, and the temptation? “Free will” is a bullshit answer for an omniscient being who knows what’s going to happen.
Trying to get a good sourdough starter going has been one of the most infuriating things I’ve done. I’ve managed it once, only for it to die to mold. Dogs at least will bug you for thing they need eventually.
Just in case you wanna give it a go
You can also hit them up for support from chat or phone.
Edit to add, if anyone else has a starter, I highly recommend their popovers as something to try with discards. They’re amazing. (Alternatively, for breakfast the waffles/pancake batter,)
I know there’s a fancy name for these arguments but I dont recall them.
I mean that flow chart fails to disprove god through the circular discussion on free-will. If you want to argue logic in the discussion about if God cannot create a world with free-will but also without evil then he is not all powerful. But those ideas are opposed to each other. No matter the amount of power, making evil non-existent takes away a component of free-will. Could a creation god create a world that does not have a god? The question is paradoxical.
Not a defense of faith but a disapproval of this particular argument against it.
Isn’t that an argument against an all powerful God though? That if God were all powerful, that they can do literally anything, that they could create a world such that there was free will and no evil.
If God cannot create such a world then God cannot be all powerful. Just because we cannot imagine what that world would look like wouldn’t limit an all powerful God from creating it.
I mean that’s just as bad faith of an argument as a Christian saying “it’s God’s will.” You can’t argue against nonsense and illogical concepts because they will hit you with more nonsense. But if an argument can be made logically, that’s when it is time to meet it with more logic. If evil exists, and is also not a creation, but a facet of life, then to remove all opportunity to choose evil, destroys the idea of free will. Turn the argument on its head. “If God were all powerful, he could create a world with free will and also no good.” That doesn’t even make sense. If there is no good there is no evil. There is no longer a choice in the matter.
At that point you have to think about things like free will and good and evil as what they are, human inventions of the mind. I know people of faith who understand the difference between inventions of man and what they believe are creations of God. It’s silly to say God invented the car I drive. It’s also silly to say God invented math or philosophy or science. Only the real fanatical types will argue that way. Instead most people, when they boil it down, will come to understand good and evil are human ideas. For the faithful, I think the smart ones will be able to determine that if we invented those ideas, they don’t exist because God made them exist, but because humans chose to invent them with their free will.
I think I’m going to stop defending the Christians now lol. They are capable of their own arguments. As bad as they usually are…
Then they can go the “god is not literally all powerful as he can’t do logical conflicting things together”, when then asked why, either because he is “only” maximally powerful and to obey logic. Or because he would have to destroy logic for that and it would break any concept like good or evil and his creation would lose all good as well and free will becomes absurd too because there is literally no logic, so how would a person use their will?
Logical explanation:
“Don’t you know there ain’t no devil, it’s just god when he’s drunk.” - Tom Waits
This comment assumes that someone other than God has the moral authority to define evil. If God doesn’t define evil, then who does? If I say what God does is wrong and therefore evil, what am I really saying? Aren’t I judging God? I dont even have the authority to judge other men, let alone God. If I had the authority to judge God, then between the two of us, which one of us is really God?
God knew men would eat of the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Thus, giving man the ability to judge good and evil.
According to scholar Nathan French, the term likely means “the knowledge for administering reward and punishment,” suggesting that the knowledge forbidden by Yahweh and yet acquired by the humans in Genesis 2–3 is the wisdom for wielding ultimate power.
I mean, would it contradict anything if God didn’t have free will?
Then god is an automaton. A machine. It is arguably not the most perfect beautiful thing that can exist.
Also, humans were made to his likeness, and humans have (per Bible) free will.
humans were made to his likeness, and humans have (per Bible) free will
Your reasoning is backwards here, isn’t it? Essentially it’s saying “If we were made in God’s image, then God must look like exactly like us” is it not?
