This is very troubling, and I’m not even sure where to start. I recently received an email message from my ISP which alerted me to an incoming update. I didn’t worry too much since this is obviously not the first update they’ve ever pushed through.
However, after this update, I noticed that my guest connections and some other things had changed / disappeared. I logged on to my router, and I immediately noticed my custom password had been reset to the default. No problem, I entered it.
At this point, I saw that all of my options were greyed out. I could change the password, which I did, but nothing else. I immediately called my ISP.
I was told that I would have to use their app now, so as much as I dislike using proprietary phone apps, I conceded and installed the app through the Play store.
However, the agent was not entirely honest with me. I still can’t bifurcate my 2.4g and 5g connections, nor can I add or remove any guest connections. I immediately enabled “privacy mode” via the app, which purportedly prevents information from being collected by something called “HomePass,” and I “Delete[d] Guard events” whatever the hell that means, but this seems really troubling. I can no longer access my modem/router settings via the normal interface, but have to use an Android app?
There is only one other ISP in my area. They have much worse/slower service, but should I switch, or is this just the “new normal”? Does what I’m describing even make sense? I’m not a tech expert, but I feel like I’ve self-taught myself how to navigate these settings, and learned from others in online forums, but now … an Android app?
I’d appreciate any advice. I’d even be willing to purchase my own modem/router instead of using the one from my ISP, if that fixes this mess.
Edit: So I need my own router, at least. I did some research, and these are the ones I can get locally that are within my budget:
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TP-Link Archer AC1900 Dual-Band Mu-Mimo Wi-Fi Router with Gigabit Port
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Linksys AC1200 Dual Band WiFi 5 Router
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TP-Link Archer AX1500 WiFi 6 Dual-Band Wireless Router | up to 1.5 Gbps Speeds
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TP-Link Archer C54 | AC1200 MU-MIMO Dual-Band WiFi Router
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NETGEAR - Nighthawk AC1900 WiFi Router, 1.9Gbps (R6900) I’VE BEEN WARNED AGAINST NETGEAR THOUGH IN OTHER FORUMS
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TP-Link | AX1800 4 Stream Dual-Band WiFi 6 Wireless Router | up to 1.8 Gbps Speeds
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TP-Link Archer AX3000 | 4 Stream Dual-Band WiFi 6 Wireless Router | up to 3 Gbps Speeds
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Linksys E7350 AX1800 Wi-Fi 6 Wireless Router
Am I right in thinking the TP-Link AX3000 is best?
Edit 2: At first, I bought the Netgear AC1900, which seemed like a great deal. Turns out it was unusable without creating a netgear account, so I returned it in exchange for the TP-Link Archer AX1500, and it appears to be working! I got everything set up pretty close to the way it was before, except even better.
Once I save money, I’ll also invest in a different modem and return this one to my ISP.
This was a big wake-up call for me in terms of privacy. I never listened to people saying not to use your ISP’s equipment because I always trusted my ISP (it’s not one of the big name ones). Never trust a company. Lesson learned. I appreciate all the responses I got! This community is great!
Get. Rid. Of. Their. Router.
ISP provided networking routers are inherently garbage. They don’t want users messing with that, because your average user doesn’t even know what the fuck an ethernet cable is and will break everything by fucking around in it.
Run your own router and put theirs into modem only mode with routing and wifi disabled. If that’s not an option ask their tech support if you can buy your own DOCSIS/fiber modem (or whatever hardware you use) and return their hardware. If they also don’t allow that… well, switch or just suck it and deal with it while the ISP rubs their nipples some more.
https://cdn.imgchest.com/files/j7kzcvmllm7.png
So I can’t disable wireless mode. This too is greyed out, and it also doesn’t let me disable wireless via the app. (When I try, it throws a popup that says “You must have at least one network.”
So is my best bet to get my own modem with router built in, or could I still connect a router to this, but never use the wifi connection through their equipment? I don’t have a lot of money, so I also want to be a bit mindful of cost.
I’d check to see if your provider has an approved modem list, buy one off that and then run your own router.
So I will want a separate router vs. buying one that has it built in? I can use whatever router I want, right? That part doesn’t have to be from the list.
That is literally fucked. There are some scenario’s where I can imagine an ISP wanting to force wireless on. a mesh network for their customers sounds like the most straightforward reason. if you cannot replace the router, faraday the shit out of it. put your own router behind the isp router and don’t forget to change the MAC address of the router (isp will probably block any 3rd party router macs on the network. seen it before)
That shit would get thrown in a metal cage and treated as a radioactive DMZ network-wise if I was forced to use it
My ISP is the dumb pipe my internet comes from, it’s bad enough that they inject bandwidth cap warnings into the raw HTML of webpages like some sort of adware virus, they can stay the fuck out of my local network
The worst part that ISP’s do these days is have all their hardware broadcast “guest” networks that you can’t disable. They market it as a bonus since any of their own customers using their own apps can connect to any ISP-provided guest network anywhere to save mobile data, but it’s actually just a massive uncontrollable security hole.
Some ISPs will not let you put the modem into a true bridged mode. I would try to disable as much on it as you can. As long as the traffic can pass through from the modem to your router that’s the important part.
When I had Comcast, I had to call them and have them turn this stuff off for me, fwiw.
I’ve owned a TP-Link that frequently lost all my settings. I’ve owned two Netgears and they’ve been great. I’ve owned two Linksyses and they’ve been great. That’s just my experience.
Yes, get your own router, don’t use the app. If you’re technically inclined, the app will only restrict what you can do with the equipment. And with ISP owned equipment, they have api access to your equipment.
Fun thought. I’d try wrapping their wifi router in a faraday cage of chicken wire, test that the signal isn’t going out with a nearby smartphone, then plug ethernet from their to my own wifi router.
You could always do double NAT (put your own router behind theirs) as last resort. It’s not that bad, I’ve done it a lot.
Out of curiosity, if your router is able to connect with their network, why do you then need to add their router back in front of yours?
In that case you totally don’t. But many ISPs only allow their own routers/modems or require some very specific abilities from 3rd-party routers usually only found on more high end (expensive) models. So sometimes the last resort is double NATing (which is fine for most users).
Do you need NAT if their network supports IPv6 and your whole home network is set up in IPv6?
yeah, double-NAT tends to break a lot of multiplayer games though so I heavily try to avoid it.
If you’re on the techy side and want an all-in-one solution? Sure, if you plan on expanding within their ecosystem later. Unifi’s biggest benefit is the ecosystem, being able to manage everything from one place is nice.
I worked on one clients unifi setup and loved it. Immediately got the usg 4 pro, 24 port switch and 3 pro waps. Highly recommend for a prosumer setup.support can be whack, but lots of YouTube and forums. Meraki too pricey for home setup but the support is top tier for critical business.
I can’t speak to the all in one dream machine, though I’m sure it’s similar in capability to my UDM pro, which has been fairly solid for me and only really has had trouble when I induced it myself. It’s definitely much more complex and open than most home routers, and allows you to set every single thing you can think of, the drawback though is that it’s not as automated as some home routers and you need to know what you are setting more in depth when you step off the auto modes. Overall I’ve been very happy with my unifi setup. I also use Protect and I’m looking to set up Access too soon(ish).
I have fiber here in my apartment.
There is an optical network terminal with an Ethernet port on it. The optical network terminal does not appear to do any routing, just conversion of the signal between the electrical and optical interfaces. An ordinary PC can be plugged directly into it, use DHCP to get its IP address, and that’s it.
I was supplied a router by the ISP as well. It’s spent the better part of the last decade gathering dust in a drawer.
Of course they have to configure the modem- they have to set it up right to talk to their own hardware. Itd be impossible to use otherwise.
The point is to insulate your actual LAN settings and router from the ISP so they can’t go fuck with it. This isn’t even a security thing - the ISP can and already is sniffing every packet you send - it’s just trying to maintain some semblance of usable control.
Use that shit as a modem and get another device for your internals.
So I just got off a chat with an agent who tells me if I provide my own equipment that I will be able to use the settings as normal and delete the phone app, but that I have to use one from their supported modem list.
I’m thinking about the Arris SBG8300.
Arris makes good stuff. But that is just the cable modem. It will NOT provide any router protection for your home network. Your network topology should look like this:
ISP -> your cable modem -> your router -> everything else
Honestly, if you don’t have need for many ethernet connections, just get a wifi router with good reviews and the arris cable modem. Make sure the cable modem you pick up has the right DOCSIS version for the speed you are getting or plan to upgrade to. Your ISP will be able to tell you what version they are on.
Arris makes good stuff.
Except when they hardcode the challenge for logging into the admin console into their web frontend. To call the firmware code quality subpar would be an exaggeration.
Please forgive my ignorance, but this would need an additional wireless router? Isn’t it built into the device?
I do understand your flowchart, but it seems to me that this model covers both the modem and router aspects.
(To be clear, this might be my own ignorance. I do remember before they had modems with wireless built in, I would connect an additional wireless router, but I might be behind the times again.)
I know you’re on a budget, but avoid Intel puma based modems. The raw specs look good, they’re the only 8x32 channel docsis 3.0, but they have a big that causes a serious jitter.
https://lookgadgets.com/articles/intel-puma-modems-list/
Personally, I have an Arris S33. The 8200 is good too, those are both docsis 3.1 and more future-ready but $150+. The 8300 you mentioned is an Intel puma, so maybe keep looking. You might be stuck with a 24 channel modem.
If I gave you a list of the names of routers that are available to buy in my town and that are within my budget, do you think you would be so kind as to recommend one for me? There are so many and I really don’t know where to start
I promise I wouldn’t hold you accountable for my decision :P
If you can, look into Ubiquiti. Their Unifi package is pretty comprehensive, and self-hostable.
If not, get an RPi with two Ethernet interfaces. Run raspbian, and learn IPTables/netfilter with masquerade. Put the WiFi in AP mode. Yes, it’ll suck but at least it’s not their router.
Save up a little bit and upgrade to a NUC with 2x Ethernet or some older HTPC with two Ethernet interfaces, it doesn’t need to be much. If it can run VMs, maybe you could run even run pfSense or DD-wrt on it. Get a managed switch that understands VLANs. Look into upgrading your WiFi to Ubiquiti Unfi APs with a local controller in a VM.
This is the way…
Never use their router. Obviously for the issue you’re having now, but also for financial reasons. They charge ridiculous fees for renting their shit routers when buying one for like $120 will be a significant upgrade over there’s and will start saving money like 6 to 8 months in. Also it’s not tied to the company, so you get to keep it.
I even had the tech try to install their own router after I’d told them I’d be using my own hardware, and then he ARGUED with me that theirs was better and faster. Didn’t ask for your opinion, install the service the way I asked, I know what I’m talking about in this space.
Never use the ISP provided equipment on your network. Even if you must use their modem and router, have them turn of the wifi, and connect your router to their garbage using the WAN port to connect from their LAN port with nothing else connected. If they refuse to turn off their wifi and you can’t do so through the admin, cover their crap in a Faraday cage to kill the signal. Always enter your own DNS settings on your router, never use their DNS. Make sure to use an encrypted DNS to avoid them hijacking it.
I’m pretty sure they can’t refuse. At least in the US. Correct me if I’m wrong.
