Edit: Jesus Christ, people. If you buy a $150 Thinkpad made by slave labor instead of a $1,200 MacBook made by slave labor, you’re still supporting a capitalist economy based on slave labor. We all do. We have no choice. The number of smug liberals in the comments saying “well I buy a cheap used laptop” or “well I buy coffee beans and make my own coffee” are completely missing the fucking point.

Don’t tell yourself your consumption is moral. All of us make unethical choices every day because there is no ethical consumption under capitalism. Accept your shame and guilt and let it drive you to do better.

0 points

In response to your edit, there’s a difference between being forced to buy products that employ slave labor and choosing to buy something that is extremely overpriced because of capitalism. Yes you need to live within the system, but that doesn’t mean you buy the most expensive and wasteful version and then claim “well I had no choice!”. You have choices. You’re just being willfully ignorant of them and shifting the blame to someone else. Heaven forbid you become part of the solution and not just another addition to the problem.

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1 point
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It’s a little telling though that they left the apple logo as the only untouched portion of the lid lol.

If you really hated capitalism but were forced to participate, at least the first sticker you put on the laptop would cover the company name/logo.

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1 point

Seeing so many responses like this to the edit makes me happy. This is the intellectually consistent position imo: if you’re going to take the position that “this is the world we live in” (which is valid) then you must also accept that there are degrees of consumption and actively choosing one of the worst ones without a strong rationale is less moral.

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6 points

If everyone is going to be paid fairly for their labor, plenty of electronics are going to dramatically rise in price, as they rely in materials that are often obtained through people working in miserable conditions, sometimes reaching extremes such as child slavery.

I for one am willing to pay more if that means we fight against the abuse generated by this system.

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2 points

On the other hand producing a smaller variety of modular devices means you need less people overall supporting the same level of industry. Making designs open source and parts available means devices can be made to last longer than they previously did, requiring less manufacturing in the long-term. While I’m not sure where the equilibrium between this and other factors comes down, it ultimately leads to better working conditions and better devices so I’ll take it.

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3 points

So a perspective I haven’t seen here yet: in many places, Starbucks is the only suitable third space left. I.e. place that is not work/school or home. I have non-Starbucks cafes nearby, but due to astronomical and increasing rent for all the independent cafes in walking distance, they are in smaller buildings and they can’t afford to have people sitting for hours on laptops using the WiFi/talking to friends/reading a book. I still support my local cafes for food and coffee, or really short meetings with folks, but if I need to get out of the house and spend time in public where I’m not obligated to speedrun my coffee, Starbucks is The Choice.

And that’s why i might be inside of a Starbucks while hating capitalism. Because capitalism made Starbucks the only corporation able to afford proper cafe space.

(There is a library nearby, yes, but not with good space for sitting down and working on a laptop. And even having THAT Is a massive privilege)

(Also I actually do have a MacBook that I do my personal stuff on, because of various bits of software i need that are OS specific, which is annoying as heck but i got used to my work mac anyways and then found a nice one used… so yeah.)

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4 points

Let me know when someone dies without Starbucks. I have all life, so take your time.

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4 points
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I love it when people use the absolute-unethical capitalism comment when we do have initiatives out in the world that are progressing to indeed bring better conditions to workers or help solve other problems.

See the following, in no particular order; also note that most of this is with reference to textiles, but some overlap with other sectors:

  • United Nations (aka Global Compact, Global Compact on Migration, Global Compact on Refugees)

  • OEKO-TEX

  • The Textile Exchange

  • Forest Stewardship Council

  • Science Based Targets Initiative

  • Global Standard (aka GOTS)

  • International Accreditation Forum (aka ISO)

  • SEDEX (aka SMETA)

  • PETA

  • Good Jobs First

  • Fairtrade Labelling Organization International (aka FairTrade)

  • B Lab

  • Bluesign Technologies

  • Social Accountability International

  • Climate Neutral

  • amfori (aka BSCI)

  • Worldwide Responsible Accredited Production (aka WRAP)

  • 1% For The Planet

  • Cradle to Cradle Products Innovation Institute

  • Sustainable Apparel Coalition

  • Stichting ZHDC Foundation

  • Fair Wear Foundation

  • Global Green USA

  • Global Reporting Initiative (aka GRI) via Corporate Register

  • Regenerative Organic Alliance (aka ROC)

  • Better Cotton Initiative (aka BCI)

  • CELC Developpement (aka European Flax™, Masters of Linen™ Certified)

  • Belgian Flax & Linen Association (aka Belgian Linen™ Certified)

  • European Union (aka Ecolabel Certified)

  • United States of America (aka USDA Organic)

  • American Apparel and Footwear Association

  • Canopy Planet

  • Ecological and Toxicological Association of Dyes and Organic Pigments Manufacturers (aka ETAD)

  • Better Work aka International Labor Organization aka United Nations / International Finance, Corporation aka World Bank Group

  • Open Supply Hub

  • TÜV AUSTRIA

  • International Association of Better Business Bureau

  • Business & Human Rights Resource Centre

  • U.S. Green Building Council (aka USGBC)

  • CSP Worldwide (auditor)

  • Ecovadis (auditor)

  • MSCI (auditor)

  • Sustainalytics (auditor)

I’m sure there are plenty of others out there, but I think at least for the textile sector, there is a consorted effort towards a better economy for workers, users, and the planet. See also Fairphone and their FarTrade Gold program, as well as Framework laptops.

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3 points

The “have no choice” argument is extremely thin nowadays and letting it fly is just leaking ignorance or at times hipocricy. Anyone living in the first world has an option to help and just want to blame the elite that are the offender. The assailants that enjoy the disparity in the world obviously aren’t going to do anything about it so it is just convenient whine

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