The most important and foundational aspect of fascism is anti-communism
First and foremost, the Sturmabteilung was mainly formed out of the Freikorps, which was formed and used to crush the Spartakusbund and communist uprisings in 1918 Germany. The Nazis and Italian Fascist Party’s first targets were always trade unions and the communist parties. The famous poem records the actual order of Nazi Priorities
First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me
As Moshe Postone elaborated in his analysis of Structural Anti-Semitism, that anti-semitism and using the Jew as a scapegoat allowed the separation of positive sides of modernity and capitalism (mass consumer goods, relative autonomy, etc.) from the negative aspects (alienation, volatility due to speculative finance, the parasitism of rent seeking, etc.) and say that the positive aspects were real capitalism, while the negative aspects were due to the Jewish controlled finance (a.k.a. cosmopolitanism, crony capitalism, woke-ism, etc.). Additionally, things like Judeo-Bolshevism allowed the Nazis to avoid questions like “who do we hate more, Jews or communists”, and how they were opposed to finance capital and communism simultaneously.
But to be more direct, Fascism is fundamentally the white blood cells of capitalism. Where major cataclysms like the great depression, hyper-inflation, or the broader alienation of capitalist life prevents people from really believing in capitalism as this ever present progress that provides a “rising tide that lifts all boats”. Fascism comes in to prevent any structural critiques or implication of capitalism by using scapegoats like the Jews controlling the banks or immigrants coming in and taking jobs. Fascism’s fundamental material basis and mass support is based around people that don’t want to give up on the idea of capitalism and their position in it (which is why the Petit Bourgeois is the most important basis of fascism and reaction) despite having to deal with the failures and consequences of capitalism by deflecting the blame onto socialism and some other group like the Jews. “The problem with the economy is that we still haven’t privatized (Privatiserung) and deregulated enough of the economy. There is still some occluded socialism somewhere.”
Not really the post for the most in depth analyses, i think, but would like to say that I’ve been convinced by Cesaire, Fanon, and other global southern scholars that fascism isn’t just a reaction of capitalism to internal resistance or such, but instead the contant necessity for expropriation that sometimes cannot be accomplished geographically (how it happens often at the periphery) but instead must be brought internally to expropriate from groups of peoples and leftists. This comes with whatever liberal justification possible (usually about undeserving wealth or so). Often this is easily combined with class warfare and creates hell for leftists, especially if their attacks on capitalism are what is preventing the fascism externally from working as effectively or are decreasing the profits that can be reaped internally. The destruction of capital that some use to define fascism seems just a consequence of fascism and not a defining feature to me, something that must be done to maintain a periphery constantly in need of supply from production within the industries which are prioritized for profit. That follows very easily from the material conditions when the expanding periphery stops expanding or begins to shrink. Sometimes that destruction happens by just giving shitty equipment that falls apart, sometimes by treating humans as the capital itself through enslavement and killing them, and other times by war.
It’s not a full-on disagreement, I just find it something that is often talked about as if it’s far away Horror Story as opposed to something that’s been the basis of capitalism for a long time that is still happening. The most successful countries managed to perform fascism best and that’s how they got there. The US is the ultimate success story of fascism
This is also where I think Stalin understood fascism better than Trotsky, because Stalin understood it as normal capitalism just aimed at the “Judeo-Bolsheviks” (including the slavs and USSR) at the time (and the right hand of the social democrats who are the left wing of fascism) while Trotsky considered it more of an abberation
XXth century fascism was the west’s capitalists reaction to communists taking power all around them. Rich assholes started financing rabid anti-communists to kill leftists.
An early version of fascism is described in Marx’s 18th Brumaire, in which he describes a failed revolution being followed by a period of terror, when anyone the cops thought was involved with workers movement could be killed in the street.
From the end of WWII to now, imperialists have been financing far-right groups to counter communists/leftist/progressive groups wherever they seem to be getting some power. See operations Gladio and Condor, and also the Jakarta Method
I am so irony poisoned I genuinely though was the original orientation
Is this instance another lemmmygrad? Supporting the CCP and all its antics?
at what point in your life do you become the sort of person to get defensive over people making fun of Mussolini
Only no, make fun of Mussolini by all means, but dont think CCP and Soviet actions arent any different, both wanted to eradicate minorities and built concentration camps, both were against the lgbtq.
For a socialist you sure do spend a lot of time bashing succesful revolutionary projects and you sure do spend a lot of time downplaying the actions of fascists
You literally came into a thread where people are dunking on Mussolini and started pissing and crying saying we’re bigots. You made up some wild claims about the people here being anti-lgbtq (lol) in another comment thread; you clearly don’t understand any of our positions and if I had to guess you know all you know about politics from either streamers, clowns, or both.
call me when the SEESEEPEE has aircraft carriers in the gulf of mexico the way amerikkka has aircraft carriers in the south china sea. call me when china is building military bases in other countries without their consent the way Amerikkka keeps guantanamo bay open despite the cuban government not consenting to it for over 60 years. Call me when China has over 800 military bases all around the world. Call me when China is couping, sanctioning, embargoing, and assassinating anyone who inconveniences their foreign policy. Call me when you have something besides disproven atrocity propaganda from Adrian Zenz.
Please, you’re spiritually a burgerland inhabitant
‘I’m a leftist but I think everything to actually do with leftism is bad. Everyone knows real leftism is when you vote for the anticommunist girlboss liberal who wants to means test food stamps more and subsequently raise the military budget by 50%, slava ukraini’
we’re evil communists here to, uh, feed the poor, secure housing for everyone, oppose violence against innocent people. you know, all those horrible things liberals kill people for
You can be communists but dont be tankies. Dont try one language and one culture everywhere, also stop veing against the lgbtq.
Dont try one language and one culture everywhere, also stop veing against the lgbtq.
Nobody here supports “one language and one culture everywhere” and this site has so many lgbt people, like I think all or at least the strong majority of the mods and admins, and I estimate at least a third or more of the regular users are some flavor of lgbt.
China? What does china have to do with being anti-fascist? Umm sweety you just did an whataboutism
Fascists and tankies are the same to me, neither have voting rights and both want to eradicate minority cultures. Only wanting a homogeneous societies.
Im a socialist myself, but CCP ideology just means only a few people get to stay in power just like feudal lords.
I’m sorry but you’re just doing Kremlin propaganda, whataboutism is an old Soviet trick to change the subject of discussion. Please stay on topic or I’m gonna have to label you a disinformatskayia bot
Fascists and tankies are the same to me, neither have voting rights and both want to eradicate minority cultures.
Which is why the concepts of “whole process peoples democracy” and “mass line” originate in China. And why China exempted minorities from the one child policy and does affirmative action in schooling and government positions
Im not liberal, im a socialist.
A “socialist” who believes capitalist propaganda and refers to the largest and most successful actually existing socialist state’s functionality as “antics”? Sounds pretty liberal to me.
And im not American either :)
The person you’re replying to wasn’t suggesting that you were. He signs all his comments with that phrase at the end, and strangely enough, it’s almost always fitting.
Anyway, yes, this instance does tend to try to talk about China accurately, and it does so in the face of overwhelming torrents of western propaganda cultivated by the capitalist’s/imperialist’s demonization of the state that poses the largest contemporary threat to their hegemony.
I just edited my comment to fix my use of “they/their” into “he/him” as per the other commenter’s pronouns. I mention this specifically because you said in another comment for us to “stop being against lgbtq.” This instance is the most lgbtq-positive space I’ve ever encountered on the internet. We frequently get hated on by transphobes because we include pronouns next to usernames. We were, and to my knowledge still are, the only instance to do so.
Putting Uigyurs in concentration camps, being against the LGBTQ, colonising Tibet and eradicating their language and culture. Disputing borders with every neighbour. Claiming control for the entire South China Sea.
Putting Uigyurs in concentration camps
Where are your sources for this? The report that lies to ground for the claims of the genocide of uyghurs which concludes 1.3-2 million detainees was based on interviews with only 8 Uyghur individuals, then extrapolated to form percent estimates on the population of detainees in the XUAR
the whole story about uyghur "unrest was a CIA narrative planned to destabilize China, top US army Chief admits. 2018.
More than 35 countries defend China over mass detention of Uighur Muslims in UN letter and despite china apparently being anti-muslim the country has significant support from islamic states.
Educate yourself.
Anti-lgbtq
Being against LGBTQ? Sure they could be better and they have some weird boomer gripes about “sissy men”. At least gay conversion therapy isn’t legal. If that level of anti-lgbt makes you vehemently opposed to a government, then I hope you’re spending your days firebombing your local police station (I hope you’re doing that no matter what, but also I would enjoy ideological conistency)
colonising Tibet
Oh no my poor slaveowning theocracy how horrible that that stopped! Le wholesome dalai lama definitely should have slaves the poor guy.
eradicating their language and culture
By having them speak and read tibetan? Okiedokie
Disputing borders with every neighbour
China has an ongoing border conflict with India that’s about it. If border conflicts make a country heinous, them I’m sorry but you can’t support Canada or Denmark, since they are disputing Hans Island.
Claiming control for the entire South China Sea.
China claiming the checks notes South China Sea? How dastardly! Next you’ll tell me it claims control of beijing!
Putting Uigyurs in concentration camps
According the the fundamentalist Arian Zenz who is on a ‘divine mission from god to destroy the ccp’, but according to UN represenativies who have actually visited the region; https://www.ohchr.org/en/statements/2022/05/statement-un-high-commissioner-human-rights-michelle-bachelet-after-official?fbclid=IwAR2AOnouU529HJwYiZphgIyD4ZgRaK5la7x03mJ5Ep5r75S2glpXXS_3LfY
being against the LGBTQ
https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/07/11/china-court-rules-against-forced-conversion-therapy while the US and other Western states still has gay conversion torture legal and active in many states
colonising Tibet and eradicating their language and culture.
Eradicating the slave theocracy ruling Tibet, with the support of the Tibetan working class you mean?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/feb/10/tibet-china-feudalism
guarantees the freedom of Tibetan compatriots to use and develop their own spoken and written language
Ccp aint even communists… its like any other capitalistic country
They just have the word in their name. Doesnt mean shit.
Just like the countries with the word “democratic” in their full name, are the least democratic of all. (Democratic republic of congo… its actually a dictatorship)
A party of 90 million members and 500,000 municipal level labor cohorts voting in local and regional elections to create a central goverment that defuses most of its authority to regional economic blocs is far more democratic than any of the horseshit top down neoliberal technocracy that passes as “democracy” in the west
Harvard University’s Ash Center released a 2020 study of Chinese public opinion showing that, as of 2016, “95.5 percent of respondents were either ‘relatively satisfied’ or ‘highly satisfied’ with Beijing,”
[…]
Li: At the moment, the Chinese the party state has proven an extraordinary ability to change. I mean, I make the joke: “in America you can change the political party, but you can’t change the policies. In China you cannot change the party, but you can change policies.” So, in the past 66 years, China has been run by one single party. Yet the political changes that have taken place in China in these past 66 years have been wider, and broader, and greater than probably any other major country in modern memory.
Pilger: So in that time China ceased to be communist. Is that what you’re saying?
Li: Well, China is a market economy, and it’s a vibrant market economy. But it is not a capitalist country. Here’s why: there’s no way a group of billionaires could control the Politburo as billionaires control American policy-making. So in China you have a vibrant market economy, but capital does not rise above political authority. Capital does not have enshrined rights. In America, capital — the interests of capital and capital itself — has risen above the American nation. The political authority cannot check the power of capital. That’s why America is a capitalist country, and China is not.
from https://redsails.org/china-has-billionaires/
also hey look, you’re in this picture:
Marxists view “success” as improving people’s lives, i.e. increasing the amount of wealth each individual has, getting people out poverty, improving life expectancy, improving literacy, improving home ownership rates, improving access to health care, so on and so forth.
Liberals view “success” as bringing people “freedumb and democrazy”, even if that entails completely destroying their living standards, killing tons of people, driving people into immense poverty, preventing their country from developing.
But it makes no sense because if “democracy” comes from the Greek, “demos kratia,” meaning, “people’s power.” If the people actually had the power, why would they not use the political institutions to improve their livelihoods? So how do liberals reconcile this contradiction that you can have “democracy” while at the same time not having expected outcomes from democracy?
They resolve this contradiction by reducing “democracy” down to mere rituals. If you perform the rituals, you’re a “democracy.” If you don’t, you’re a ”dictatorship." The actual outcomes of the rituals don’t matter, if people’s lives aren’t improving, if they’re even getting worse, it’s all justified as long as people are performing the correct rituals.
This makes liberal understanding of “democracy” better understood as a state religion rather than any actual real desire to give power to the people. They, in fact, always, consistently, praise the destruction of living standards as long as those rituals get to be performed. Libya is a great example of this, but so is all of eastern Europe, so is the million who died of COVID in the US while they call China “authoritarian” for protecting its people.
So if you look at global poverty over the last (say) 40 years or so, there’s been a downward trend. Take China out, no downward trend. The World Bank likes to crow about how their policies have lead to the lowest levels of poverty in history, but if you look at places like sub Saharan Africa and Latin America where the World Bank and the IMF have been most active, poverty has been stagnant at best and actively increasing at worst - something the UN has remarked upon repeatedly.
So what gives? If China is just like any other capitalistic country, why is poverty going down there so much faster than anywhere else? Is the fact that China has been so apparently successful at reducing poverty and food insecurity an endorsement of authoritarianism?
