I am asking here because all the political subs don’t allow a question, and US politics used to seemed so simple until to understand this man came along.
Because this needs to be done 1000% right, there is no margin for error, everything has to be done in an iron clad manner that cannot be dismantled by half-assing it. Indicting a former president is a first in the history of this country, and this former president is nothing short of a cult leader with millions of unshakable followers, many of whom are armed to the teeth and ready to burn this country to the ground for him. So this has to be done very friggin carefully.
Like Mueller half-assed it and the end result was nearly a fucking coup. Can’t let that happen again.
Mueller didn’t half ass anything. He conducted his investigation and determined that crimes were likely committed, but that he didn’t have the power to bring charges in his position as special counsel and it would be up to the AG.
Which is true. A DOJ special counsel is not the same thing as the independent counsel that used to exist, which was what Ken Starr was when he investigated Clinton.
A DOJ special counsel is completely beholden to the AG and DOJ policies and can’t bring charges without the AG signing off on them.
If you actually read the mueller report, it’s extremely damning and he turned it over to the AG and Congress to do something about it. The AG declined to bring any charges based on a DOJ memorandum that says a sitting POTUS cannot be charged. The House impeached Trump over the findings and the Senate failed to convict and remove him.
The current AG could still bring criminal charges over the conclusion of the report, but at this point it’s been so highly politicized that it would be impossible to get a conviction on.
Stop saying “the AG”. Say his fucking traitor name. William Barr. Who only got cold feet at the 11th hour when the groundwork for the coup was already being made.
The Mueller report - as you say, damning - was completed and then given to this scum, who withheld it, released a “summary”, claimed it found no wrongdoing whatsoever, eventually released a heavily redacted version…
I mean I remember it happening. This slimy fuck. He got a report that said the many ways Trump did illegal shit, but since he was the one who could choose when and how to release it, he was able to get ahead of the media by saying all kinds of bullshit lies. By the time he was finally forced to release the real report, it was too late, the “Trump did nothing wrong” story was already too far out there.
Look, I’m glad he finally, barely, by the skin of his teeth did the right thing and said there was no fraud in the 2020 election. But we should not forget that brazen bullshit he pulled in front of Congress and the American people.
@Earthwormjim91 I am wondering if that is the reason we are not seeing any of the Trump kinds getting indicted To not make it look like justice is hunting them and legitimize the poplitical lies?
Muller half assed the investigation, on top of that corrupt Barr hid all the important findings, and Bitch McConnell swept the whole treason under the rug - that all lead Orange Man to be even bolder with his treason and rise of blatant lawlessness within the Republican Party.
I don’t disagree with what you said but I just wanted to point out how entire republican machinery is responsible for the imminent death of democracy in this country. Not just Muller’s half assed investigation.
In addition to being done right, he has to be pampered. I hate him passionately, but I really mean that. Subjecting him to the indignities of stuff like handcuffs, a mugshot, an orange suit, etc will turn him into a martyr in the eyes of his cult followers. And while the rest of us would enjoy seeing it, that’s not necessarily bringing out the best in us either. Donald Trump is an enormous pot-stirrer and unless you really want the pot to boil over you need to tiptoe around him, as unfair as that is.
turn him into a martyr in the eyes of his cult followers
they’re gonna continue to be terrorists no matter what we do and I’m sick of bowing to their terrorism
So why do we have to be so afraid of his followers that we are giving him special treatment to dissuade their violence? Instead of, you know, fighting back or having them jailed too. 🤦
What’s it matter? Because a large portion of those millions of followers are going to be in positions where they can do damage. You want to swing every single one to believe that the law was carried out in a manner true and faithful.
Imagine, if you will, if somehow the federal government passed a law banning firearms for private use. Right now. Do you think the police in most places would actually go around and try to seize firearms? Fuck no, and not just because they aren’t suicidal morons. Most of them think people should be able to own firearms. It would be chaos as some attempted to follow the law, and others did everything they could to sabotage it.
Now extend that to the military/national guard (and if it was “millions of followers” burning the country down, the military/national guard would get involved) in the event of Trump conviction and an imminent/happening revolt/riot. Imagine how many it would take to create mayhem inside of bases/squads/etc. Even if you want to be really positive and say that the military had plans for contingencies where they can effectively stop traitorous members, it would still take a chunk of operating efficiency.
Now extend that to everywhere. State governments, counties, cities, business offices, doctor’s clinics, hospitals, sanitation departments, etc. etc. etc. You might think that they’re “all self-fulfilling, selfish, egotistical, narcissistic, irresponsible and demented people,” but don’t be childish. People are people. There are all sorts in that group, and they all have varying levels of commitment and care about the issue. Some can be convinced.
So, think of the way this is being handled as an effort by a large group of people to head off complaints that could be made and accusations about incorrect handling that would give cretins something to latch onto and endlessly jabber about, thus preventing a potentially swayed individual from coming to the conclusion that yes, Trump was lawfully convicted without conspiracy because he actually fucking broke the law many, many times.
If it was really that bad the cia would have him killed. It’s just because he had a good team of lawyers to make sure that when he did anything he did it was either defendable or on someone else so it’s hard to get him.
Absolutely. You can estimate the number of true followers he has by looking at how many people use truth social (it’s still a thing) in comparison to pre-musk twitter. It’s a vocal minority. The only reason trump was able to get where he did was by getting the electoral college to believe he was the lesser evil (not gonna get into voter fraud) (and being really, really rich). They have him killed in such a way that it seems like it wasn’t them and he is still viewed as a martyr by few, but not all. Even if they truly believe that he was what they said he was, it won’t matter because no one rich enough exists that would want to replace him. They would be okay to do that.
The CIA really isn’t going to assasinate a prominent politician, let alone a former president. It would have massive consequences from delegitimizing the democratic system to causing riots all around the country.
This is probably a correct assumption, plus it also keeps it relevant. More of his supporters/underlings going to jail and it keeps the heat on. It drew it out for how long and now the nation is ramping up for another election and Trump’s indictments start flying in.
They are also worried about setting dangerous precedents in the process of closing these loopholes we didn’t think needed closing (like the largely ceremonial congressional ratification of votes on Jan 6,or the peaceful transition of power in general) and dismantling an enterprise whose director continually aims to obstruct a good faith process to the bitter end (Trump’s attacks on legislative and judicial branches, specifically DOJ and it’s bureaus).
Also, he’s not exactly “free.”. That being said, it is truly infuriating, and detrimental to all of us, consciously and subconsciously. It’s like Republicans are living out the ending of “Requiem for a Dream.”
Is there any evidence that Trump has gained fans because of this? I cannot fathom how that could work.
I watch a lot of automotive content on YouTube, and it’s been interesting seeing right wing ads evolve (and yes, the fact that I like cars means they think I’m conservative bums me out, I also subscribe to bicycle stuff and climatetown, but whatever).
There’s a new one that is basically “Trump will lose to Biden again. Vote for anyone but him in the primary.” Kinda warmed my heart a bit.
When you’re a billionaire, you can do whatever the hell you want in Murica.
Nah, it does depend a bit on the country. Didn’t several russian billionaires (aka oligarchs) … erm… have accidents last year? So I don’t think money helps you a lot in a system like that. It gets them further, no question. But ultimately it didn’t matter.
Part of it is because there are still looming constitutional questions about whether a president, current or former, can be indicted for his actions during his presidency. I think we’ve mostly resolved those, though. A substantial and powerful cadre of political thugs is still going to try to sue to throw every conceivable barrier in the way of a reasonable interpretation of the law, but that just takes time to wade through the bullshit.
Another big problem is that Trump captured a huge amount of the judiciary, at all federal levels, by putting cronies into high ranking judicial seats. It’s the main thing Republicans have been doing for, like, 50 years. Putting a case in front of any one of those is a landmine, and that minefield has to be carefully navigated, and that also takes time. We’re basically done with that part, now.
The much bigger problem, in my perspective, is that any criminal trial requires a jury.
Almost 50% of the voting public voted for this motherfucker. His approval has dipped sharply since then, but still, a huge portion of the US public is willing to do just about anything to make sure “their guy” wins. They have proven nearly invulnerable to rational argument, emotional argument and any appeal to empathy or compassion. They will lie to get on that jury, and then they will vote for his acquittal if they don’t get caught. Voir dire–the process of choosing that jury–is going to be one of the most harrowing things any prosecutor ever has to do. And it has to be done correctly because it’s extremely important that once the wheels of justice start turning, that they reach the correct verdict.
Any thinking person knows what that verdict has to be. But there’s no guarantee that we’ll get it.
And if we don’t get it, we see the rule of law start to collapse at all levels. Remember the 1992 riots after the cops that beat Rodney King got acquitted? Imagine a whole country of that. The prosecutors in these cases are thinking about that. And that’s why they’re being extremely meticulous about every detail of these proceedings, because their errors could cost us a lot more than Trump getting away.
It feels like, while in theory it might be possible to convict a former president, in practice it’ll be literally impossible to find a jury who aren’t biased in one way or another, because everyone has a strong opinion about the man. I’d bet my life savings that for virtually every potential juror, how they voted in 2020 has a bigger impact on their verdict than any evidence either side could possibly provide.
@starman2112 @xantoxis it’s not about bias is about facts. If proved that something happens is not biased. It is called applying the law.
Okay, I’m going to take this on its best face and believe that you might just not have thought about the process. In a jury trial, each juror gets to decide for themself what they believe happened based on the ‘facts’ presented during the trial. If you have talked to any hardcore fan of a politician, then you have seen how they can disregard just about anything that is presented about their favorite fella.
The concern that a juror who voted for Trump; watches nothing but Fox News, Newsmax, or other ‘conservative’ media; lives in an area where only other brainwashed masses live; talks about nothing political except for conservative talking points with said neighbors, friends, family, and coworkers coworkers; and is still willing to believe in Trump’s innocence despite all the public evidence we know about will vote innocent regardless of what is presented in court is a legitimate concern. Don’t be naive and think that somehow being in court will cause a tiger to change its stripes.
whew That was one hell of a run-on sentence.
@xantoxis something must be very wrong when you have near 50% ppl voting for president someone like #mangomusollini after 4 years to comprove how unfit he is.
If you look at everything a politician does and think “How does this get them more money or power?” then things make more sense. There are a few exceptions but roll around with the pigs long enough and they get muddy too.
