What is the difference between cellular data being used on my phone and cellular data being used on my notebook? Data is data.
This is why we need net neutrality
This has little to nothing to do with net neutrality, which refers to back end L1 and L2 network interconnections.
Edit: wait, you might be right. As I understand, net neutrality is for the last mile ISPs, not the L1/L2 providers. So uh… what I explained below isn’t relevant. Eh, I’ll leave it in case people wanna learn stuff.
It was a bad explanation, assuming you had knowledge of network infrastructure things, but it does make sense. I’ll explain things if you’re interested.
Net neutrality is the idea that ISPs must treat all content providers equally. Your phone is not a content provider (most likely. You could run a web server on your phone, but… no). YouTube, Netflix, Facebook, TikTok, and your weird uncle’s WordPress site are content providers. Without net neutrality, ISPs can say, “Hey YouTube, people request a ton of traffic from you on our network. Pay up or we’ll slow down people’s connections to you.” The “neutrality” part means that ISPs must be neutral towards content providers, not discriminating against them for being high demand by consumers.
For the L1 and L2 part, that’s the networking infrastructure. The connection to your home is just tiny cables. I don’t recall how many layers there are, but it’s just “last mile” infrastructure. The network infrastructure between regions of the country or across the ocean are giant, giant cables managed by internet service providers you’ve never heard of. They’re the kind of providers that connect AT&T to Comcast. These are considered L1 or L2 providers. The data centers of giant companies, like Google for YouTube’s case, often pay these L1 or L2 providers to plug directly into their data centers. Why? Those providers are using the biggest, fastest cables to ferry bits and bytes across the planet. You might be pulling gigs from YouTube, but YouTube is putting out… shit, I don’t even know. Is there a terabyte connection? Maybe even petabyte? That sounds crazy. I dunno, I failed Google’s interview question where they asked me to estimate how much storage does Google Drive use globally. Anyway, I hope that gives you an idea of what L1 and L2 providers are.
I’m not a network infrastructure guy, though. If someone who actually knows what they’re talking about has corrections, I’d love to learn where I’m wrong
That’s not what net neutrality does, and I’m disturbed by this being the number one comment.
Sorry how would net neutrality do anything but make them reword the policy??
The ISP shouldn’t care what kind of traffic is going through the network and show it down by type. It should be neutral to it
They can care about what device they’re providing internet to. Net neutrality is about where content is coming from.
When T-Mobile moved to unlimited with the ONE plans, they gave You “unlimited” tethering at “3G speeds”, which turned out to be 0.5Mbit/s, an unusably slow speed in 2018.
The Magenta plans gave you 5GB-50GB of full-speed tethering before dropping you to “3G speeds”. The current Go5G plans are similar, with a limited amount of usable tethering data before you’re, for all practical uses, cut off.
Before the ONE plans, there technically was no hotspot usage limit, but since you had a limited amount of high-speed data, your hotspot was effectively limited to whatever your plan gave you.
All the US carriers limit hotspot usage, partly to prevent someone hooking up a computer to download 50TB of pirated movies while clogging up the bandwidth for everyone else on that tower, and (moreso) partly because they’re greedy.
Lol. They totally do. Their best plan without going arm and a leg for unlimited gives you 50GB a month before dropping to near nothing. Up to a year ago it was 40GB.
Net neutrality isn’t going to do a thing about this kind of stuff. In a best case scenario, you’ll end up with overall data usage limitations - no more ‘unlimited mobile data’.
ISPs meter data usage because it’s pretty much the only way they can impose some form of limitation on a finite capacity to provide such data to you and other customers - other than data rate limits (read: slower speeds). They can’t guarantee data rates in almost any setup, because ultimately, while ‘data usage’ is a bit of an artificial construct and ‘data’ is not in any way finite, the pipes that deliver the data certainly are of finite capacity. Mobile data capacity - and in fact, any wireless medium - is a shared medium, the more people try to use it simultaneously, the less pleasant it’s going to be for each individual user. Ask Starlink users in many US areas how overselling limited capacity impacts the individual user.
Mobile data usage also has different usage patterns than if you’re hotspotting your PC. You’re not going to download massive games or other bandwidth hogs to your mobile. You probably won’t be running a torrent client either. So they can give you unlimited mobile data because you’re simply not going to put as much of a strain on the infrastructure with pure on-device usage than you will with hotspotting.
This isn’t a defense of what AT&T is doing. But net neutrality isn’t going to force them to suddenly be all ethical. It’s not going to make them provision infrastructure that doesn’t fall over at the first signs of higher-than-usual load. And it certainly can’t change the physical realities of wireless data communication. In an ideal world ISPs wouldn’t be so greedy and/or beholden to greedy shareholders to be cutting corners, and instead provide sufficient infrastructure that can handle high demand.
And to those who are talking about their workarounds: you may not like it but you’ve signed a contract. That contract stipulates acceptable use, and if you’re found to be breaching the contract terms, the other party is within their rights to terminate the contract. Again, in an ideal world these contract terms would be more balanced towards the needs of the customer, but in the meantime your best recourse against unfavourable contract terms is to take your business elsewhere. And if you can’t do that, everything else is at your own risk.
It’s to stop people from abusing unlimited data on their cellphone for all their WiFi devices at home. I know a person who did not have WiFi at home and only used their cellphone data. You are using more than a typical cellphone user and also you are cutting them from an opportunity to sell you a WiFi plan for your home. It’s annoying, but as I understand it, this is the reason.
You are using more than a typical cell phone user
But it still costs the ISP effectively nothing to send those 1s and 0s. This is like complaining about someone having a bunch of fans on because they’re using more air than the average person.
This might not apply everywhere, but I live in a rural area and actually most of my Internet used is through cell networks. When there are a lot of people in the area for some reason, I’m much more likely to lose service completely for web and calls.
I don’t think that a reliable network is the reason why communications companies are limiting people’s data, I think they’re doing it for profit, but it could be a rationale to do so. It’s not unreasonable to think that there can’t be “unlimited” anything without some kind of impact.
But isn’t limiting an unlimited service a form of false advertising? I’m sure they’d argue that a ToS was signed, but I don’t know that you can legally bind people to accept a false advertisement.
This is why I love Google Fi. I go anywhere on earth, and I have coverage. Unlimited everything. Never worry about nothing, ever, and has carrier bonding for when you’re really out there.
This is the Unlimited Plus plan. Their Simply Unlimited plan throttles you after 5 GB of hotspot usage, but phone data is unlimited.
Google Fi will throttle you after you hit a limit depending on your plan. I unknowingly hit mine after using my phone for a hotspot, watching a few hours of soccer and I think Windows downloaded a bunch of updates too. It was towards the beginning of the billing cycle so the rest of the month really sucked. Might want to double check your plan.
TMobile provides literally the same services, beat-for-beat at a lower price.
People don’t think these things through. Google can’t possibly be cheaper than a wireless carrier because they don’t own any towers. Wireless carriers will make sure Google doesn’t sell cheaper than they can sell it themselves.
Also, things like Metro PCS (before T-Mobile bought them) just have lower network priority. So “cheaper” just means crappy service. Good luck making a phone call at a sporting event or concert.
They absolutely can, several carriers who use other carriers are cheaper than who they lease service from. They won’t be paying consumer prices to use those towers.
It all depends on what margins they have, what extra services they provide, and whether they have other ways of monetizing you. They might even be reselling at a loss to boost their initial market share. In Google’s case, it’s safe to assume they want your data and sacrifice some margins to get it.
tmobile doesn’t do free international data anywhere on earth. when I travel I have service before the airplane touches down. also, google fi uses carrier bonding so i will jump to us-cellular when I am up north which is extremely valuable for me as I am in the mountains constantly.
I also have GFi and currently still use Fi, and I’m telling you Tmobile is better in every single way, including international carrier bonding. I haven’t switched over due to Fi VPN being very convenient for me (and there’s better VPNs out there anyways so I’m not married to it at all).
I’m sure this is an unpopular opinion, but I kind of get this one. Unlimited data on your phone is constrained a bit because it’s your phone. If you make your phone a hotspot and the whole family is using it to watch videos and stuff (and not paying for their own data plan), that’s a pretty big difference to the infrastructure needs.
Yeah. You have unlimited data but they don’t want you to actually use that.
They take the risk that you’re not going to use more than they want you to from your phone but it is very likely that you’ll use it from your computer or if you connect multiple devices to your phone.
I find the idea to be reasonable because they can’t actually supply everyone with unlimited data but they really shouldn’t be calling it unlimited if there are any limits.
They can detect you using your phone as hotspot? Creepy.
The phone reports it, yeah, it is creepy. Should be illegal to even have the knowledge to differentiate.
Sometimes it’s based on the TTL of packets. TTL for hotspot clients will be one less than TTL for directly using data on the phone, since the phone is acting as a router, which adds an extra hop.
I think running a HTTP proxy or VPN server on the phone would mask it (since the connections would then be made by the phone directly), but I’ve never tried.
