I’m glad that the Biden admin told Isr*el not to attack Rafah, but made sure to load them up with everything they need to do it.
There isn’t a lib on this earth that can make me feel an ounce of shame for not voting for this absolute ghoul.
https://lemmy.world/post/13680072
They sure are trying to ignore we keep having issues because of voting for lesser evil there
if theres an opinion i can trust on the state of the world its a 23 year old terminally online redditor from wisconsin
So glad to know he’s trying his hardest to get our votes; hey libs, keep trying to convince tons and tons of people to change their minds instead of this one geriatric, totally sensible choice and a sign of democracy working as intended.
I hope nobody is distracted by him barely pandering to the queer community while this goes on. This is what Biden really stands for
At least Biden still feel the need to pander to the LGBT community and other minorities, which means he can still be made to compromise on certain issues. With Trump it’s straight up fascism.
Just on this reasoning alone, Biden’s got my vote, considering that Trump will still do the genocide anyway, if not worse.
I don’t understand why Hexbears think that voting for Biden means supporting his policies. It is entirely possible to strategically vote to protect the lives of minorities from being endangered. If we can buy 4 more years of time to organize while protecting minority lives, then that’s a bargain I am willing to make, no matter how repulsive Biden’s genocide is to me. I don’t understand the willingness to gamble with accelerationism.
The American electoral system is designed to punish those who do not toe the line, so we’re only going to get punished if we do not at least pretend to “play by the rules”. There is nothing you can do to change that except for a revolution, and until we have the strength and numbers to do so, we have to play by the rules. If Trump wins, then any socialist project is dead in the water.
(Note: I am not American so I can’t actually vote, but you get the point.)
I mean, if I had been an American, I would vote for Biden. I’m not going to gamble with Trump’s fascistic Plan 2025.
But I’m not American, so it’s not exactly my business, although American foreign policy affects the entire world.
I don’t understand why Hexbears think that voting for Biden means supporting his policies. It is entirely possible to strategically vote to protect the lives of minorities from being endangered
Except voting for Biden is not strategically voting “to protect the lives of minorities from being endangered” considering the fact Biden has Trump beat on deportations, police funding, prosecution of minority protest/civil rights groups; and normalizing genocide by VOTING for the man who is committing it definitely doesn’t protect Muslims and Arabs,
Who’s left, queer people who he left to the right-wing mass harassment wolves during the last four years because he was comfortably in power? Like these are basic facts the bluemagas refuse to digest
Your failure of analysis lies in the fact you don’t recognize that Biden is the accelertionist candidate, while Trump’s incompetence, unpopularity and animosity he receives from the democratic wing of capital is the far safer bet in terms of harm reduction
Right now capital is united, with Trump in office Dems are gonna have an impossible task of going along with him after the apocalyptic anti-trump narrative they’ve seeded the media with, it’s in that disconnect just like after 2016 the new left can actually grow and organize
It’s easier to oppose Trump than Biden, and for that reason alone minorities like me want to see the dems eat shit
I don’t understand why Hexbears think that voting for Biden means supporting his policies
Are you fucking serious
(Note: I am not American so I can’t actually vote, but you get the point.)
Why even write all that then?
As I said in my comment, I don’t understand why people are so adamant about not voting for Biden.
For me (perhaps coming from a Chinese perspective, although I can’t speak for everyone), it’s a no brainer: play with the cards you’re dealt with, think about how to win the long game etc. It’s all about being strategic, and how to buy time and build an actual movement from under an oppressive regime. Moralizing about it is not going win you the war. And I want us to win in the end.
For example, the CPC cooperated with the KMT to form a national front against fascist Japan, even though the KMT had massacred some 95% of the communist party members during the Long March. It was not something to feel good about, even with great humiliation, but it was necessary for the communist movement to survive and ultimately prevail.
I don’t know if I should say this, but it is becoming quite clear to me that Western leftists are more interested in moralizing the issues than to actually build a revolutionary movement. Perhaps this is why there are so few left wing movements left in the Western imperial core? I don’t think they actually want to win and take power. I’m not saying this is the main problem, but certainly worth thinking more about it.
For the revleft participation in the system is endorsement of it.
You can’t tell people to vote in one election and then tell people that actually it needs to be overthrown and think that’s going to happen 5 years later.
At some point or another you just have to commit to it being broken and build your movement based entirely on the fact that it is broken and can not be supported in any way whatsoever.
You are not convincing anyone that there is a need for revolution by telling them that actually there is a reason to participate in the system that you want revolution against. Maybe that passes among very well educated theory-heads but it does not work when you exit theory spaces and start talking to the masses.
Participation in the system can be used as a tool to subvert the system in part by helping convince those who have yet to be convinced that a different system is needed.
That’s not to say we should vote for Biden, just that there is usefulness in continuing to participate in these systems while also working to get rid of those we see as obsolete.
At least Biden still feel the need to pander to the LGBT community and other minorities, which means he can still be made to compromise on certain issues. With Trump it’s straight up fascism.
I thought your point through all your posts here on Hexbear dot net is that Biden is a much more ruthless fascist than Trump.. Like you can’t say:
With Trump it’s straight up fascism.
and
I mean no offense to the people who think that Trump is someone who can turn America into a full-blown white supremacist state, but they’re dead wrong. Without the ruthlessness of Biden, Trump could never get it off the ground in a million years.
Which is it? So, with Trump the US is going to be a fascist but not full-blown white supremacist state while with Biden the US will be full-blown white supremacist but not fascist.
Or is this just you doing a bit for your own amusement?
In my comment in this thread I was specifically commenting on LGBT/queer community (since OP was making a point about Biden celebrating Transgender Day of Visibility while doing genocide in Gaza).
In terms of protecting LGBT community, Biden is definitely the lesser evil here. That’s why I said ‘Trump is straight up fascism’ because it was specifically related to the LGBT issues, especially with Project 2025.
However, if we’re talking about the broader strategy of forging a white supremacist state in America through global geopolitics, then Biden is certainly a much more ruthless figure in this regard, and far more likely to succeed than Trump.
Of course, you can say that these are both the same thing. Fine, that’s arguable.
But if we’re talking about what our American comrades can do from within the imperial core at this very moment, I never said that Biden is good, I said that we can placate the Democratic Party by a few more years if it means buying a few more years to protect LGBT minorities while building strength for a revolutionary movement from within. If Trump wins and fascist thugs openly commit violence, then you won’t even have a left wing movement to begin with. Note, I am specifically talking about what American comrades can do from within. It doesn’t mean Biden is less capable on an international geopolitical level, simply that it is far easier to do anti-imperialism than under Trump from within. That’s all I’m saying.
These are two separate issues, there is no contradiction here. At least in my own understanding of the situation.
There is no socialist project to become dead in the water. What is possible is the project of Palestinian liberation, and THAT is being actively exterminated by Biden. You are fucking ghoulish to think of 4 more years of this as “4 more years of time to organize while protecting minority lives” while he literally exterminated Palestinians. Are they being protected right now while we bomb them?
Those of us with humanity are already getting punished, it doesn’t matter if you play by the rules. And again Palestinians are wiped out while you are concerned with playing by the rules.
You have no use to any movement leftward if you are willing to sacrifice the Palestinians “strategically”, you are nothing but another second international offering up other people on a platter. Your “bargain” makes you the enemy of socialists just as much as a republican. Go bathe in Arab blood or whatever you do for fun, we want no part in it
Look, we can agree to disagree. Many of the counter-arguments here make sense, and I don’t disagree with them, although I still believe that voting for Biden is a survival mechanism for the left. We play with the cards we are dealt with.
Perhaps you have not seen my responses to some of the replies below, but I have literally said that I do not believe in electoralism: that is, withholding the votes or not is not going to change Biden’s genocidal policy that they have already committed to. In this case, voting is purely strategic that seeks to maximize the chances of survival for any nascent left wing movements in the US.
I support 100% the Palestinian people, I simply think withholding the vote for Biden isn’t going to change the needle. Sorry, the Biden administration is ghoulish and there is nothing you can do about it without a strong left wing movement that can actually exert real, material impact on the ruling class regime. And to get there, we need to build a left wing movement.
The first thing to admit is that none of the protests the Western left is doing is working, and you want to help the Palestinians and stop their genocide? You need a real movement to achieve that political goal, and not fantasy about how withholding your votes can somehow stop Biden’s policies - how is this not just a belief in electoralism in another form?
And you are not going to win me over with the moralizing argument. I am biased by the history of the Chinese communist movement. The CPC had to collaborate with the KMT to fight against fascist Imperial Japan - the very same KMT that had just massacred 95% of the communist party cadres during the Long March. Do you know how fucking humiliating that is to the communists at the time? But Mao was built different, he could see the bigger picture, and knew how to steer the weak movement towards survival, and ultimately victory over the much stronger KMT. This was how we won, and why China is ruled by the Communist Party today. If you don’t know how to survive and play the long game, you won’t even make it past the infant stage because the capitalist class will instantly choke the infant to death in the cradle.
I don’t understand why Hexbears think that voting for Biden means supporting his policies.
If Biden was some feckless loser who just kept bumbling around the White House as a well meaning but ineffective in stopping the fascism the USA is based on/infected with, you’d probably be able to make a “critical support” argument to vote for Mr. Magoo to the Hexbear crowd. But this goes beyond anything that could justifiably be argued as “critical support”.
Joe and the dems could pass a voting rights act to protect minority voting rights, just like they could protect abortion rights. What minority lives will they be protecting? They’re doing urban warfare centers in every major region, and libs are apparently very comfortable with whole sale slaughter of non white people. It’s looking more and more as if Genocide Joe is the more effective evil…
I don’t understand why Hexbears think that voting for Biden means supporting his policies
We are supposed to have a “representational democracy” where ‘elected’ officials represent the will of the people. Votes are consent. Consent is support. Holding your nose is consent. Manufacturing Consent.
The ruling class doen’t need to give concessions knowing Manufactured Consent methods will keep them in power. They do not care if you consent gleefully or with distain. Consent is consent.
Voting for Biden or Trump is to maintain consent for the establishment. Voting outside the establishment is a non consent vote. It doesn’t need to win, but a large enough faction where the Winston Smiths can’t fudge to hide such as the vote.
They had to cover it. They had to factor it. Maybe not winning the war against…war but it embarassed the establishment. Clearly showing they do not represent us with their actions, and more importantly the World at large there is a reaistance movement to what bullshit our leaders are comitting. That not all wants this and it wasn’t just “the Arab population” it was across the board and across demographics.
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
Every time a Democrat is elected without being held to task to follow through on a progressive platform, the Democratic party slips to the right. Hillary was always well to the right of Obama. Biden is well to the right of Hillary.
What looks like “pandering”, if you examine it past the most superficial performative level, is a race to the bottom.
In a swing state maybe it makes sense, but 75% of the population does not live in a swing state.
Pretending to care about something does not mean he can be made to compromise on the issue, he and the dems will pretend to stand for something and then conveniently fail to pass or compromise away everything worthwhile until it’s exactly the bill Republicans would have wanted anyway
Dont worry they can also use all the dead in China of WW2 as a shield for killing Palestinians. Classy
Right but Trump would give them 2000 2000 pound bombs and like 50 F-35s.
We have to vote in November.
Liberals want me to think this is ok because while Biden sent 25 fighter jets, Trump might send 35 fighter jets
According to some in here (even hexbears?!? blech), the genocide perpetrator you know is always better than the one you don’t, so yeah, you’d better
