If anything, RFK will split the Republican (Russian) vote
This author is a dipshit
I said this in another post, but i believe older democrats who dont keep up with the nonsense of politics could very well just see the name Kennedy and vote for him. If we werent in a very red state i would be worried about my grandfather in his 80s doing exactly that.
They run this same story about third party candidates every election year. The problem is they never show that the people who voted for the third party candidate would’ve definitely gone to one party or the other. People know what’s at stake, why do you assume people voting for RFK Jr would’ve voted for Biden? There’s nothing about his platform that is very left leaning. The most left leaning thing about him is his last name.
Edit: Just as an example, I voted for Nader in 2000. I’m someone who would’ve voted for Gore otherwise. But guess what? I was voting in a state that wasn’t in close contention at all, so I could vote for a third party without really changing the calculus of who would get elected. The idea that votes for third parties are fungible with votes for major party candidates is just not accurate.
Because it’s true every time, and it works a lot. Gore would have won if Nader wasn’t on the ticket, and guess what? The Republicans have been propping up third-party candidates for years.
Hell, in Florida they got some random dude on the ticket just because he had the same name as the Democrat – and it worked.
Intuitively it doesn’t even make sense in this case though. Biden is running as the safe ordinary establishment candidate. Trump and RFK Jr are going for the right wing wacko conspiracy theory crowd.
Unless I see data to the contrary, I’m going to assume that RFK Jr siphons more votes from Trump.
Well, there were a certain number of disaffected Sanders primary voters that switched to Trump when Clinton “won” the primary in 2016. It’s hard to believe, given how diametrically opposed Sanders and Trump are, but there it is. Why would they go from a moderate candidate to a far right one? I don’t know, and it’s really hard to pin down in the data.
That’s kind of the problem we have now. Why would someone that was a Biden supporter flip to RFK, when RFK is very clearly significantly to the right, and way off in crazy-land compared to Biden? I don’t know. But given how likely Trump supporters are to show up, Biden really can’t afford to lose too many to RFK. Or West, for that matter, who is closer to what I’d prefer politically.
Except they’re talking about Vermont, where there are open primaries, meaning they could have been Republicans trying to spoil the democratic nomination. I find that far more believable than a Bernie bro voting for Trump.
I find that far more believable than a Bernie bro voting for Trump.
I don’t. I was–am–a Sanders supporter, and I’m still pissed that twice the Democratic party has done everything it could to sink Sanders. I voted for Stein in 2016–in a state that easily went blue–because I honestly didn’t think Trump could be as awful as he was. I figured he’d be run-of-the-mill Republican, rather than trying to go straight fascist. I figured, correctly that my vote would make very little difference in a state that is as reliably blue, albeit NIMBY, as it is.
I was, of course, entirely wrong about how awful Trump could be, and was.
In 2020 I voted for Biden, although I’m still pissed that yet again the DNC threw all their weight behind him, instead of the more principled candidate.
And I’ll vote for him again, because any other vote is going to be hurting people that I care about. Even though Cornell West has, IMO, better principles than Biden, voting for West in a state that only went blue because the ‘vote was rigged’ last time would not be a good idea if I don’t want to support a decent into fascism.
The problem is the people running the DNC
At some point, we’re going to have to make an actual left wing party. Because the only thing the national DNC cares about is money
They don’t even know how to spend it effectively when they get it.
Socialist Party of America, Socialist Alternative, The Communist Party of the USA, and plenty others have been trying to run left of the Democratic Party for a century, it won’t work in a FPTP voting system, converting the Democrats into a Socialist party would literally be easier.
If you want a left wing party other than the Dems, you’re gonna have to change FPTP first.
Nope, party flips have happened before and they will happen again. You sound extremely condescending for someone who doesn’t know nearly as much they think they do.
The Democratic Party is run by deeply monied interests. You well never succeed in “converting” it to socialism. and no, getting a handful of candidates like AOC elected over the course of a few decades doesn’t show that you can. It actually proves the opposite point.
Today’s Democratic Party is more conservative than ever so all of you claiming we can convert are either incredibly naive, or deliberately trying to sabotage leftist movements.
The Democratic Party is run by deeply monied interests.
You ever seen proof for this or did you just hear it and it sounded right?
Today’s Democratic Party is more conservative than ever so all of you claiming we can convert are either incredibly naive, or deliberately trying to sabotage leftist movements.
Lmfao the Democratic Party used to be the part of Slavery and Segregation, and then what do you know, one of those party flips you literally mentioned happened and they became the ones spearheading the fight for civil rights in Congress. I see no reason the same can’t happen around capitalism.
Or or, and hear me out here. We could do what has happened many different times throughout history. And take over/replace the structure of a party. The Democrats already ignore state and local elections across several red states. What if we lefties/socialist/etc instead of trying to prop up separate parties and separate candidates that always fail. Fielded our own candidates who more closely match our own ideals. And run them as Democrats in these areas. Focusing on funding them ourselves as well as whatever money the DNC apparatus might provide. We might actually start winning. And if we start winning we might actually be able to replace those in the DNC. And if we replace those in the DNC. Things might actually get better.
Isn’t that what they said?
converting the Democrats into a Socialist party would literally be easier
This is what the DSA has been trying to do and succeeding in for 30 years with candidates like AOC
converting the Democrats into a Socialist party would literally be easier.
They’re a private organization…
They’ll keep doing whatever they want without changing as long as people keep voting for him.
The only thing the DNC has that a different private party wouldn’t is momentum.
If they just gonna keep following the rnc, we have no choice but acknowledging we were abandoned long ago already
The DNC is a national political party organization. Every four years the entire party is reorganized from the ground up. It’s actually a pretty well created organizational system, the only people who really bitch about it are they keyboard warriors who have no understanding of it or the crazies who cannot fathom why they need other people to agree with them.
The Democratic Party and the DNC and all the affiliates are nothing more than tools for whatever vaguely left of american center interest group wants to use them.
There’s no massive conspiracy to keep the Democrats Neoliberal, and if there is anything even similar to that, it’s happening behind closed doors in Wall Street, not Washington.
They’ll keep doing whatever they want without changing as long as people keep voting for him.
How long have you been involved in politics? I dont mean for that to sound demeaning. We’ve gone from Neoliberal democrats and Clinton gutting social welfare in the 90s to Socialists being integrated into the broader coalition, both parties have changed and will continue to change immensely over time. Ignoring that because you’re upset about Bernie losing the primary in 2016 and 2020 and disconnecting completely from the party is just a ticket to irrelevance, and I say that as someone who worked on some of Bernie’s first barnstorm events and both presidential campaigns.
We should all know by now that that’s not how it’s going to have to work. The way to change politics in a country isn’t from the outside. It’s not even from the inside really, it’s by getting inside and then tearing out all the support beams of fixtures and rebuilding it from the inside out. That’s what conservatives under the Republican party for the last 15 to 20 years. They completely took over the party ousted all the ones that were too moderate for them, they rebuilt their party from the inside to be what it is today. Leftists are going to have to have the discipline to do the same.
I love how democrats scream about a few thousand votes every election. Why is it that democrats cut it so close with a fascist, racist, sexist, dogshit party every election? The democrats should consider that they’re doing a shit job and should work to improve themselves instead of shrieking “but other guy!!!” every single election and claiming that everything cost them the election except for themselves. If they lose the election they smugly say “look how right we are with how bad things are!” and if they win the election they smugly say “we won so we must be doing something right, let’s keep the shitty status quo going!”
Uhh huh. You seriously think any of the voters that we lose to RFK Jr or West care at all about things like policy or actions of democrats in office? Reality has no place in that discussion. Unless democrats start going for the fringe conspiracy nutter vote, those votes are a lost cause
I would love it if that were the view that most Democrats had - then I could vote for the people I like in peace. Unfortunately, every day we get a new “vote blue no matter the genocide” post trying to shame people into voting for Biden. I pray to one day be a lost cause who isn’t worth being yelled at (the earlier the better).
It’s always a group that is simultaneously
- big enough to ruin the election for the democratic candidate
- too small to make it worth pursuing their votes
I don’t see how those statements are contradicting each other within the context of US presidential elections.
I’m pretty sure everyone cares about their own well-being. I haven’t been paying much attention to RFK Jr since he’s a non-factor, but at a glance I can see why some would like his policies: https://www.usatoday.com/elections/voter-guide/2024-11-05/candidate/robert-f-kennedy
Yes, there is the whole conspiracy theory thing, but I don’t think entire groups of people should be completely written off as crazy since people’s justifications and motivations aren’t so straightforward. I often see democrats claiming that we shouldn’t let perfect be the enemy of good when it comes to faults with their favored candidate, but this luxury isn’t afforded to other candidates. If support for genocide can be overlooked, I’m sure far lesser things can be as well (though RFK Jr is the same on support for Israel/genocide as Biden).
