I feel bad because while I don’t reach for react (I usually pick Vue or vanilla), people’s comments about react is really depressing.
There’s a LOT of shitty react code. And when you see beautiful react implementation, it’s like a work of art.
Unfortunately, react projects have been given to by bootcamps grads with 6 months of experience and it’s like the blind leading the blind…
I wonder if it’s like PHP. Lots of people shit on it because they had to futz around in a garbage project written by garbage developers, fully unaware that it can be elegant in the hands of a professional team who cares about code quality.
PHP is great for building APIs to use with React or Vue. I’m happy I have so much back end experience with both good and bad code.
My motto: if a Junior dev can’t figure out what I’m doing after two weeks of training, I’ve failed.
I wonder if it’s like PHP. Lots of people shit on it because they had to futz around in a garbage project written by garbage developers, fully unaware that it can be elegant in the hands of a professional team who cares about code quality.
You can apply this reasoning to any [web] technology. The reason it’s so visible for react, and previously PHP, is simply popularity.
Yep, finding people who understand React is hard. The majority of people who say they’re an expert in React are either coding bootcamp fresh grads or someone who’s entrenched in writing shitty React so by having them join there’s basically no difference in skill with a fresh grade hire or a fourth year college student intern.
What’s wrong with bootcamps? Honest question, as I’ve been learning to code from a python book and an “expensive” udemi course that was on sale for 20 bucks
I’d never tell people I know how to program though. I’m definitely still learning
Sometimes, if all you know is how to use a hammer, everything will look like a nail.
That’s the impression that I got from working with several bootcamp graduates. Most people who enroll are usually people who think that there’s a lot of money to be had being an SWE. However because usually bootcamps are 3-6 months max you’re just being taught how to use a specific tool to accomplish a general use case that’s already been solved many times. However, as an example in my workplace, we deal with a lot of R&D PoC projects and develop our own internal solutions due to security or law requirements from our clients. So if you’re stuck when working in one of our projects due to something, there’s no post related to that in StackOverflow.
In one case, during development I found a bug in one of the third party libraries that we use and after creating an issue in their GitHub, even the library’s maintainer is stumped. We decided to create a new internal library that solves the specific problem we’re having.
If you’re a bootcamp graduate working on that kind of project, it can be shocking.
Having a college degree can help set up your mindset work in a software engineering project.
Although it’s not necessary, because I’ve known a lot of great dev with no CS degree. But it’ll take a lot of time working in projects with a lot of different cases. Maybe it’s just that my workplace doesn’t really have a suitable kind of project for people with not a lot of experience. However lately we’ve hired a lot of fresh grads with good grades and it’s been a breeze when onboarding them to our engineering standards.
We’ve had several hires from bootcamp but there’s only one who’s a good engineer.
Take this with a grain of salt though, as lots of people can testify that they had a good experience with bootcamp grads. So maybe I’m the one who’s unlucky. YMMV.
Not necessarily “wrong” but a weakness is that they tend to focus on concrete language syntax and skimp on abstract software design, and data structures and algorithms. The result is a programmer who knows how to write code, but may struggle on larger projects or more complicated problems, compared to a computer science or software engineering graduate.
Of course I’ve met developers from applied courses and boot camps who are driven, passionate, and gifted who have gone on to make excellent system designers and software architects, but generally speaking, knowing how to code alone does not make one a software developer.
The problem with some of the comments here is that even “properly” written React CAN hit a performance bump, and optimization is a rather rare skill no matter the programming context (kinda due to little time given to it, so everyone is out of practice).
But I don’t know which ones are the ones talking about that, and which ones are just people annoyed at anything Node in general.
I find react stupid because of JSX, Vue is much cleaner easier.
ofc you can create a mess with any tool or framework
Took him two days to figure out a hello world in react?
React definition: React (also known as React.js or ReactJS) is a free and open-source front-end JavaScript library for building user interfaces based on components.
Guys, I’ve learned React in 1 minute!
Tbf, “learned a language” is a hard thing to pin down in any case.
I’ve been building enterprise software with python for almost a decade now. I still occasionally find stuff in the stdlibs that I didn’t know about, or even sometimes some subtle feature of the language that I never had reason to explore until now.
If someone asks me if I “learned” python, id say hell yeah - but there’s always still plenty to learn
That being said, no reasonable definition of learned includes what you could do in 2 days, even as an experienced dev lol
Exactly. I’m 20 years in and I’m still like “I had no idea this was a feature… cool!”
“cool”: that sinking feeling that there’s so much you could go back and optimize, but that you probably will never have the time to…
It’ basically the Dunning-Krugger curve - you’re well enough into the last part of it so you are well aware of how much there is to learn about it and how you will never know all of it, thus you don’t have and never will have the same kind of cocksure belief that “I know this shit” as somebody who knows just a bit but not yet enough to understand how much there is to know.
It’s all perfectly normal, IMHO.
Define “reasonable”…
Something like 20 years ago, I learned PHP in 2 days… meaning, I could write better PHP than anyone else on the team.
(not to diss on the team, one was a Java guy who left shortly afterwards, the others were a couple interns, while I had the power of something like 10 years of coding experience… and a PHP cheatsheet-booklet)
That sounds less like you learned the language to a high standard, and more that you were already a good programmer in general terms and everyone else on your team barely knew what they were doing.
Ultimately if you can write good code in one language, you can probably also do it in another (especially with access to cheat sheets), but I still wouldn’t call using a cheat sheet having “learned” a language.
Of course it’s all relative and subjective - which is the whole point , one person may consider just being able to write syntactically correct statements as having “learned” a language. Where others might expect a deep knowledge of the language features, standard libraries, and best design practices (this is the side that I personally lean, which I maintain can’t be done in 2 days)
To be fair, i did cover the Fortran 95 spec in a weekend, but i was motivated to tutor aerospace engineerings as there were far more females there than in Electrical Engineering and Computer Science.
The point is that learning a spec is not learning how to program in the language, just as learning how a violin works is not learning to play the violin. And writing your first few programs is like learning to play Twinkle Twinkle Little Star and The Happy Farmer on the violin. You’ve kind of learned the violin, but you’re not getting into any professional orchestras.
import React from 'react';
import ReactDOM from 'react-dom';
ReactDOM.render(
<div>
<h1>My Site</h1>
<p>Welcome to my cool site. 😎</p>
</div>,
document.getElementById('root')
);
Me too. I’ll take my salary now, please.
Edit: Lemmy stripped out my rickroll. :(
