Exactly. Self sufficiency is definitely a myth. Humans cannot survive alone for long. You simply cannot make tools that will keep you alive for long. You’ll have to venture back to civilization to get anything worked via metal at the very least. Just the basic crafts for clothing, shelter, tools and food is more than any one person can handle. It took whole tribes and villages even at the earliest points.
Now if you mean: how can I live in a cabin off the grid with minimal contact (1-2x a year) then that’s doable.
Tis a very wholesome meme, I hope this kind of cooperation is (or at least will be) possible
Edit: on a large scale, I mean
A fuckload of people are really going to have to make an effort to get their shit together for that to happen. As things stand the majority are dead weight.
I think at this point, we are just flat out overpopulated. There are simply too many people competing for resources and a significant number of them just merely exist without contributing a whole lot back to society.
We’re overconsuming more than we’re overpopulated. It’s probably possible to reach sustainability with our current population if we curtailed consumption, but our consumption driven economy would have to change at a fundamental level. We’d need to impose strict taxes on waste and heavily subsidize efficiency while redistributing wealth from the ultra polluting ultra rich.
Overpopulation myths distract us from the real culprits of our unsustainable system. We need to cull the fat cats before we cull the masses. Population control should always be the last resort, while redistribution should always be the first.
Yea, it’s really hard to get my head around any kind of communist type of ideals when I know I’d be doing 3x the work of pretty much everyone around me for the same outcome as them. Not that capitalism is much better but at least with that I get SOMETHING more to show for my efforts
the real self sufficient homestead is founding a village with like at least 50 like-minded people.
At least 50, but I’d make it larger. Maybe increase from 50 to about 8 billion and make sure all the villagers’ needs are met.
AA got it right as far as that goes. Leadership revolves.
AA would be one of the biggest organized cults on the planet if the founders hadn’t thought of that.
Now, not everyone can be a leader, and those who can’t won’t generally volunteer. So, what you end up with in a small community is a handful of leaders who don’t agree on everything and therefore represent the needs of the people in the group a lot better.
Whether we like it or not, positions of leadership tend to happen naturally. As long as we hold sacred the fact that there is no truly central leadership, it shouldn’t devolve into a cult.
It might just be a part of our nature though. When you enter recovery they give you a list of places to avoid (they gave me one anyway) because the revolving leadership has fallen apart and a single personality has taken over.
AA relies on religion and finding god to treat a medical problem like addiction. I don’t think it’s the best example my dude.
That’s only one factor in a high control organization.
There’s a theory that the longevity of a commune comes down to making costly sacrifices. This signals to the group that you’re not going to be a freeloader. Things like praying at a set time every day, or going to services tends to make religious communes last longer. The tasks don’t have to do anything in themselves; they just have to exist and take up some of your time and effort. Religion has an easier time mandating these things, because you can put the whole reason for it on an ephemeral deity rather than something more concrete. In fact, this signaling to the group may have been the reason religion developed in the first place.
The data on this is mixed, however.
http://cognitionandculture.net/wp-content/uploads/Sosis_2003_CommuneLongevity.pdf
Being self-sufficient should be a goal for every human being to strive for. Independence is a potent form of freedom that makes you feel like a magical eagle.
I’m not saying you should be Ted Kazynski or however you spell the Unabomber’s last name and live in complete isolation for most of your life, because it’s cool to have access to society’s benefits and all. But the more you can do for yourself, the more secure you will be in all ways. Basically don’t be a helpless or useless person.
The more self-sufficient you can be, the fewer societal resources you will take up, which could then go to someone else in greater need. That’s my perspective at least.
The organization I work for is all about helping people get back on their feet, and while I would never want to tell someone they should be more self-sufficient and rely less on us, there’s no denying that our resources are already stretched thin. At times, it forces us to prioritize those with the greatest need, even when others still need help.
The more self-sufficient you can be, the fewer societal resources you will take up, which could then go to someone else in greater need. That’s my perspective at least.
But the more self-sufficient you are, the more resources of yourself you need to supply yourself. So you can provide less societal resources. If you do not need to provide clothes for yourself, you have more time caring for elderly, etc.
As another view, the total resources need does not directly change by changing who does what. The advantages of helping each other are in the OP. At some point however, I would think, the overhead of organization grows so large that it may not be worth it anymore. Just think of the amount of work put into “useless” administration in many countries. But in a 30 person village, this is probably negligible.
Edit: Thanks for helping other people on the feet!
That is a good point, but I would consider resources needed to maintain stability versus resources needed to achieve stability. Metaphorically, it’s easy to stand on top of a mountain, but it’s a lot harder to climb it from the bottom. And the mountain gets taller the longer you wait.
Once you’re at the top, you can lend a hand to the people still making the climb without worrying about being pulled back down.
How would one get in touch with such an organization should they find themselves off their feet unexpectedly?
Not having any issues right now, but I think it might be easier to get an idea now that I have resources like a phone with access to the internet than after finding myself in such a position where who knows if I’ll own anything.
Out of risk of doxxing myself, I don’t want to give too much information, but specifically we work to help set up immigrants and refugees with housing, healthcare, education, and other resources, so I am not sure if it necessarily applies to your circumstances. Though my particular role is not that glamorous, I just maintain the infrastructure.
If you’re in the US, you can often dial 211 (depending on your city) to get connected with various resources depending on need, or crisis lifelines in an emergency. Local and state governments will also often host sites or portals with access to various social services they offer. Sometimes even a 211 website for both at once.
In emergencies, hospitals will also always be able to help, but keep in mind a lot of their services are not free. Ask up front if various consults/appointments come with a charge before you end up with a bill. But even if they’re unable to provide anything directly without charge, they can often still put you in contact with services they contract with, such as social workers or community wellness representatives, who may be able to provide free help depending on your circumstances.
I’ve heard even just popping over to public institutions like town hall or the local library (but not schools, avoid schools if you look homeless) can be a helpful place to start to get familiar with resources in the community.
Honestly, I hate these kinds of replies.
None of them answered the question, they just told him that he was wrong for wanting it.
It’s just… Unhelpful.
well then you need to understand agriculture, animal husbandry, construction, woodworking, become a certified electrician, plumber and gas installer, brush up on sewing, first aid, and be prepared to starve to death or freeze to death if you fuck it up, or just die from standing on a rusty nail.
The most vital thing isn’t doing everything the hard way - just being smart about doing it all yourself. It’s the sense that freedom is a function of actual independence, and actual independence is a consequence of ability.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/adventure/outdoors/a24399/the-art-of-staying-alive/
Ok, then explain those topics instead of just telling them they are wrong.
agriculture is the act of cultivating soil and producing crops…
should I go on or is that a good illustrative example of how the original request is so far reaching and unspecific as to be functionally useless.
It’s like asking “how do I make a game?”
a video game? a board game? a playground game? a card game? all of which require skills, disciplines, planning, research and understanding of mechanics that no one can summarize even in a single full length book, let alone a forum post reply.
welcome to IRC, SO and many other places. you’re always asking the wrong question and everything is an XY problem.
Sometimes true, sometimes not.
In some situations I feel like there’s some validity to not answering the question and saying what someone should do instead. Like, for example, if someone asked me how to bypass a security mechanism I don’t think it would be wrong to say they shouldn’t do that and not provide instructions for how to do so. Further, you might even argue that it’s unethical for me to provide guidance that I know (or believe) is wrong.
This is why a root cause analysis is so important. I feel like often in those situations, the problem trying to be solved is really a symptom of the issue as opposed to the actual issue.
You’re not wrong, I absolutely agree. At least in the places I’ve been I do feel like things are more often wrongly considered an XY when they’re not though. And a lot of times people will just dismiss questions because “you shouldn’t WANT to do that” for dubious reasons they might have against it.
