Rising GOP support for the U.S. taking unilateral military action in Mexico against drug cartels is increasingly rattling people on both sides of the border who worry talk of an attack is getting normalized.
Wednesday’s Republican presidential primary debate featured high-stakes policy disagreements on a range of issues from abortion to the environment — but found near-unanimous consensus on the idea of using American military force to fight drug smuggling and migration.
You don’t need guns to kill the Cartels. You need to legalize drigs and regulate them. The war on drugs is what made the cartels what they are today.
That’s completely out of the question in the Nanny States of America. The republicans want their “small government” to tell you what you’re allowed to put in or do to your own body, so free will would never be acceptable.
I’m sorry, but do you have the same position on gun laws (about nannies)?
Cause we are talking about heavy narcotics, that usually don’t give you a second chance. Guns don’t make you physically, medically dependent and unable to reconsider.
If that’s your point of view on narcotics, then in it one should also be able to own an Abrams tank with all the weaponry, legally.
Now, light drugs are fine, but Mexican cartels don’t deal in that.
I think the difference is drugs do damage to mostly yourself while guns do damage to mostly others.
Taking a drug is a choice, getting shot is not. Stop being obtuse and conflating separate issues. Shame on you.
Where I live (a red state), things like weed and mushrooms are still extremely illegal. I have a multiple AR’s that I built myself. And I respect those guns and would never use them in an irresponsible manner. But knowing how insanely stupid half the country is, it terrifies me that almost ANYBODY can legally own an AR. We need to have better control over who is allowed near these extremely dangerous weapons. And yes, they are extremely dangerous. If you’ve seen what high velocity rounds do to things, it’s understandable. But there’s no reason to restrict responsible gun owners from owning them. Ban AR’s and people will still have access to other weapons that are just as dangerous.
But telling people what they’re allowed to do with their own bodies, whether it be weed, mushrooms, abortions, etc is a complete distortion of the spirit of the constitution. If we made safer drugs legal, people would be far less likely to use more potent and deadly drugs. Sometimes people just want to get high, and if they can’t get weed they get so desperate that they are making soda bottle meth. Or buying who knows what from some shady dude on a corner somewhere. If you legalize something, then we can regulate it, and people feel safer seeking help with their addictions.
Put it this way. If there isn’t a victim, then it shouldn’t be a crime.
Drugs you put into your body. Bullets you put into someone else’s. They are not the same.
A) You should try to avoid fallacious arguments. Comparing drugs with guns is a terrible false equivalence. It’s also just flat out wrong.
B) You’re “guns don’t make you unable to reconsider” is one of the dumbest takes possible. If you use a gun for it’s sole intended purpose, you could kill yourself or someone else. That’s absolutely something you can’t reconsider. Dead is dead.
Drugs have the potential to kill ONE person, the person who made the decision to ingest them. Guns have the potential to kill many people.
There are SO many other arguments you could have made against relaxing drug policy, you chose poorly.
Unfortunately the cartels saw this coming with marijuana legalization and now aare in every industry in mexico. Avocados are already legal and the cartel makes a lot of money from them already. The cats out of the bag and it’s frankly to late to just end the war on drugs and see the country revert. Also even if meth is legal to consume are we saying that the US goverment would start producing meth?
but that’s literally never going to happen - not at a Federal level, anyway.
That’s a naive view. Do you think cartels will dismiss themselves at that point? Or that mobs will somehow become lawful citizens?
Also, do you think there is a positive scenario of consuming cocaine or opiates? Those drugs induce heavy addiction and take a great toll from your mind and body.
Leave those cases to medical professionals. They already have access to opiates, by the way.
Question is can you respond without moving the goal posts you set because if you used such a tactic I would block you for not being a serious adult.
That doesn’t sound very mature of you.
And the topic is very complex and had more than one aspect. One of them - cartels. Another - drugs they sell.
Alcohol - yes. Though it seems there are ways of consuming it without getting addiction. And that’s not the case with cocaine and opiates.
Sugar - not so much. Addiction and physical harm is real, but not on the same level. Also it’s very hard to effectively forbid sugar. I think it’s unreal.
Mobs? What mobs? Cartels are not dynamic groups of temporary people. Cartels are organized institutions adept at dealing illegal goods. It would be trivial to harm their business by undercutting prices and making drug use safe in sanctioned areas. Reducing their cash flow is paramount to reducing their power. That can be easily done by legalizing and regulating drugs. It doesn’t matter if the substances are dangerous. Would you do crack or heroine just because it is legal? I wouldn’t. I know its unpopular, but legalizing drugs is the best way to harm the cartels. People are already doing theme at epidemic levels with them being illegal, I do not see legalization exacerbating that situation. Especially if sanctioned spaces are provided to keep them off the streets.
It would be trivial to harm their business by undercutting prices and making drug use safe in sanctioned areas. Reducing their cash flow is paramount to reducing their power. That can be easily done by legalizing and regulating drugs.
Then they will gladly offer drugs to anybody who is disqualified to get it legally. And anywhere, not only in sanctioned area. And / or will offer “more potent”, but illegal forms of drugs.
As you mentioned, it’s organised institutions. They won’t go away peacefully.
Would you do crack or heroine just because it is legal? I wouldn’t.
I won’t too. But it’s just anecdotes. People are always looking for new pleasures. Where do you think new opiate users comes from?
You are exactly correct. We can legalize and sell marijuana (and certain other drugs, probably psychadelics. That’s for experts to decide.) like is already being done, but you simply cannot have recreational use of drugs like narcotics and cocaine.
They are simply too irresistible. It would lead to a massive public health crisis with phenomenal social consequences and so, so much death.
Now, I think drug abuse needs to be treated not criminally, but as the health issue that it is.
However, there will still be demand, and that will have to be fulfilled illicitly.
The idea that Cocaine is simpy too irresistible is not convincing to me. As a matter of fact availability is not really an issue, yet most people are not cocaine addicts. Also of regular users the majority is not addicted in the sense of needing it daily. Further it is much easier to develop problematic drug use patterns, like with any addictive things, when it is socially taboo, so people cannot talk about it with people outside of their circle of users and hide it from friends and family.
Addiction always is a social and psychological issue, whether it is cocaine, gambling or video games. Getting it out of the taboo is an important step to lower addiction.
but you simply cannot have recreational use of drugs like narcotics and cocaine.
Sorry for being obnoxious, but everything discussed, including alcohol, nicotine and caffeine, is a narcotic.
I guess you mean ones causing serious dependency (the three I mentioned are kinda as bad as coke in this) and serious harm at the same time (alcohol is still one the list, but coke and heroine, ofc, are worse).
Weren’t these the same people that didn’t want to help out Ukraine?
I mean, this really seems similar to Soviet intervention in Afghanistan in being unnecessary, stupid and with potential to change the target country from “imperfect” to “trash action movie” level.
(I remind you that when Soviets started all that crap, Afghanistan was a half-dependent from USSR socialist republic, and there were some mojahed (a socialist-Muslim hybrid, not really that popular today) rebels making trouble, and it would likely remain the same. Then they decided to perform a limited operation, which succeeded in changing Afghanistan’s government, and then it turned into FFA.)
You forget an important component in Afghanistan though. The US heavily supporting the muhajjedins that later became the Taliban, to mess with the UDSSR. I think it was even in Rambo 2 or 3 were the dedicated the ending to the “brave fighters”.
Now the CIA is on the same side. Unless they are still pulling some Contra style stuff in Mexico, which also wouldnt be too suprising.
Yes, they were, and “heavily” is not an understatement. Only no, Taliban is not same as mojaheds.
The former means medieval fundamentalism, while the latter is almost "progressive with Islamic traits’ (in Iran one can see some remnants of it in their relation to transgenders and, well, women as compared to Taliban).
Many mojahed groups were Taliban’s enemies too. I mean, Ahmad Shah Masoud is the name coming to mind first.
Ever seen Charlie Wilson’s War? Best movie I’ve ever seen on the subject. The last scene was so potent, minor spoiler: when Tom Hanks’ character is fighting for reparations money, and nobody gives a shit about building schools in Pakistan. He just sighs and facepalms, and says, ‘it’s Afghanistan. We’re talking about Afghanistan.’ Really illuminates how we got to where we are right now.
A destabilized Mexico is what they want, they’ll use it to annex Mexico and make Sam Houstons intent reality.
The US has military bases all around the world and strategically a hostile nuclear power winning a war in Eastern Europe is far more severe for the geopolitical position of the US, than Mexico being in its shape since decades. Its just that the GOP and Trump have some interesting ties and suprising cash flows with Russia.
The only policy Republicans have is “kill people different than me”, there is literally nothing else.
They have other policies, like forcing 13 year old rape victims to give birth and non-lethal discrimination.
“We already beat them and stole half their country back in the 1840s. High time we did that again!”
“You do realize that would mean we would have more Mexicans living in the US?”
“…”
When there’s domestic problems that you haven’t even offered a solution for, point outward.
