EDIT: here’s a source for that figure
Previous studies have estimated that 73% of all antimicrobials sold globally are used in animals raised for food
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7766021/pdf/antibiotics-09-00918.pdf
Sorry ya’ll, but if you are still shoveling these idiots money for most of your meals, then you personally are the problem. You should feel guilty every time you do it. You are hurting yourself. You are hurting your children. Tou are hurting your granchildren and future generations. You are hurting strangers. You are hurting everyone you care about. You are doing this all out of addiction and laziness. Not to mention the extreme torture that you are inflicting on the animals. It is time to grow up and take responsibility. You are not innocent because “other people do it too.” You are guilty. Please admit this very clear fact to yourself and do better.
and a well rounded vegan diet is not cheap.
Not the person you are replying to, but want to counter that part specifically. The cost is actually usually the other way around. It’s much more of a privilege to consume large amounts of meat and dairy
From a modeling study looking at healthy plant-based diets:
It found that in high-income countries:
• Vegan diets were the most affordable and reduced food costs by up to one third.
• Vegetarian diets were a close second.
• Flexitarian diets with low amounts of meat and dairy reduced costs by 14%.
• By contrast, pescatarian diets increased costs by up to 2%.
https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-11-11-sustainable-eating-cheaper-and-healthier-oxford-study
From some real world spending data
Based on primary data (n = 1040) collected through an online survey, representative of the Portuguese population, through logistic regressions, it was possible to conclude that plant-based consumers, particularly vegan, are associated with lower food expenditures compared to omnivorous consumers. In fact, plant-based consumers are shown to spend less than all other consumers assessed
https://agrifoodecon.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s40100-022-00224-9
Compared to meat eaters, results show that “true” vegetarians do indeed report lower food expenditures
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0921800915301488?via%3Dihub —(looking at the US)
Do you know if it’s reasonable / practicable to be vegeterian while doing keto? I’ve enjoyed how it makes me feel but the carb limit is difficult to meet without meat.
And yet rice, beans/lentils, pasta, vegetables, and spices are all vegan, and are all the staples for low-cost meals in grocery stores the world over. Where do you live where that isn’t the case?
You know you can’t actually argue against it, so you point to a small hypothetical edgecase as if that will excuse your behavior. You are the one who lacks perspective and demonstrates extreme entitlement. You think because there may be some people forced between starvation and factory meat that it somehow gives you moral superiority and permission to destroy the lives of others. I go out of my way to make things better, you desperately search for anything you can to distract from all the harm you selfishly cause.
You don’t even have the strength to let other people do the work. You feel like you need to go out of your way to attack and intimidate them because it makes you feel so inferior. Lucky for you, there are people on the planet to take care of things for you while you just sit by and moan and complain. We work for a better world despite you while you complain about our efforts, you entitled little brat.
I totally get you, but if you want really convince other people of doing the right thing you need to change your tone. This kind of approach is terrible, no one wants to be called evil or dumb for something they never had the time to think about it. You have to do better than that otherwise you are just preaching to people who agree with you.
Yeah, absolutely, you’re totally right. That’s definitely the most common way to go about it, and maybe the most effective, I really don’t know. There is a bunch of gentle nudging going on, though, and everyone responds to different things. For some people, no amount of loving hints will get them to do anything. Some people just need the genuine blunt truth to get them to actually think about something. Honestly, it’s like any other addiction, the desire needs to come from within, nobody can force them to get better.
I dont buy that many people are unaware or never thought about it before. It’s brought up all the time. The issue isn’t a lack of information, it is that most people just have almost no personal moral compass, they just rely on the behavior of the masses to dictate to them what is right/wrong. The more people remind them that what they are doing is disgusting, the more likely they will be to eventually change. I figure just machine gun 'em with all various forms of reminders, and we’ll get through to some. Eventually, we will hit a critical mass, and the sheep will follow. The most pathetic will cling to their cruelty addiction until they are dead, but that’s the same as what happened to the racists, rapists, child abusers or anything else that used to be more accepted.
There is no point in talking reasonably. This is our planet they are destroying.
Nah dude, get down from your horse and learn how to talk with people or just give up. Did you started believing this stuff because some asshole called you a dumb evil fuck? I think not.
Oh yeah! Love my burgers from the Stockyard restaurant in Brighton. Occasionally, I’ll get the filet. Oh my!!
It is NOT my fault the Earth is fucked.
Corporate and politicians can eat the shit out of the ass of every meat eater.
GFY for trying to blame the “little guy”. You’re a prick stain.
You can try to pass the blame onto them all you want, but the obvious reality is that the billionaires can’t sell disgusting over-drugged factory farm meat to billions of people if billions of people don’t buy it. They only have power if you willingly give it to them.
The game is over, YOU are the problem, and only YOU can stop your own disgusting habits. No more blaming everyone else for your own complete and utter lack of self-control. Live in your guilt. You are screwing us all over because you are unable to admit responsibility. You are an abusive husband who beats his wife and then blames her for it. Nobody with any amout of common sense is still believing your tired old excuses.
Future generations will know what you did, and you will disgust them. They won’t even be able to comprehend how you could be so vile and uncaring. Get used to it, Grandpa. That’s your future.
You militant vegans are hilarious, meat eating is not going away, get over it. You know how people don’t like when religious people try and cram their shit down your throat? Yea… you’re doing the same thing and it’s really fucking annoying.
If you will buy it, they will sell it.
Corperations are not people. They have no moral compass. They do what their customers will pay for.
Customers are people. Customers can choose based on any criteria. Convenience, morals, pleasure, whatever they value.
You are the customer. By buying from animal agriculture, you are saying you value what they are selling.
Yes, the thousands, millions, billions of customers matter. YOU are a customer. YOU MATTER. And if you choose to value something that is pure evil for all involved except your taste buds and their bottom line, then yes. You share in the blame. Especially now that you know what it causes.
Ever wonder why those old racist people who are stuck in the past are how they are? It’s because they think the same as you do. Unable to learn from those around them, obsessed with never growing, and utterly self-centered. You’ll be tolerated, not respected. As increasingly more and more people point this out to you, the more likely you will be to change.
bummer now some random on lemmy who still doesn’t know me thinks im an old fuddy duddy, what will i do!
surely this feedback is from a credible source with my own best interests in mind, i will certainly take your rando advice to heart.
i’m so glad i plan my life choices around what strangers on social media think. this’ll work out great!
(do you get the point i’m trying to make? no matter how correct you are (or you think you are), you might as well be shouting at the wall. who the fuck would actually take your life advice to heart? you have no idea who we are; why would we change our behavior based on your opinion?)
I think on some level you know this but you just wanna preach. maybe you should have this conversation with someone special in your life. or maybe… you know, the positions we argue most fervently are often ones we’re trying to convince ourselves of. since we’re giving unsolicited life advice, maybe think on that one?
not really? farming meat doesn’t necessarily have to involve so much antibiotics
sure you can reduce the amount of antibiotics used by reducing the throughput of meat but you can also just put in tighter regulations
it’s not just the antibiotics that are the issue. animal agriculture is a giant contributor to pollution of water, lands, and air as well as being a major cause for the destruction of rain forrests. the level of meat consumption in rich countries can not be scaled to the rest of the world.
thats ofc is ignoring that all animal agriculture is extremely fucking immoral and cruel and honestly unconscionable.
If you don’t stop I’ll eat my dam grandchildren, how would you feel about that bucko
“Does it make us money right now? Then it’s fine.”
Nothing good comes from the meat industry. Nothing at all.
If you bang your knee every day, you might be so used to the pain eventually that it’s like you don’t feel it anymore.
Physically if you don’t know what it feels like to not consume a damaging and inflammatory diet, it’s easy to mistake feeling like shit all the time with normalcy. But it’s not normal, it’s killing you.
And emotionally if you only know what it’s like to do something that causes so much trauma and suffering (both to the animals, and the people who do the slaughtering), you might be so used to a background noise of guilt that you’re not even aware that you’re carrying it. The only way to know the difference is to change and watch what happens in your mind when you stop running away from the violence you’re complicit in.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://m.piped.video/watch?v=zqyGkvdvvuE
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Where does that figure come from? That’s wild, if true
For global estimates (~73%)
Previous studies have estimated that 73% of all antimicrobials sold globally are used in animals raised for food
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7766021/pdf/antibiotics-09-00918.pdf
For US in particular (~80%)
Of all antibiotics sold in the United States, approximately 80% are sold for use in animal agriculture; about 70% of these are “medically important” (i.e., from classes important to human medicine).2 Antibiotics are administered to animals in feed to marginally improve growth rates and to prevent infections, a practice projected to increase dramatically worldwide over the next 15 years.3 There is growing evidence that antibiotic resistance in humans is promoted by the widespread use of nontherapeutic antibiotics in animals. Resistant bacteria are transmitted to humans through direct contact with animals, by exposure to animal manure, through consumption of undercooked meat, and through contact with uncooked meat or surfaces meat has touched.4
We’ll feed them antibiotics by the shovelful but won’t vaccinate chickens…
Don’t worry we’ll do that and still do things like this
Feedback, is a common practice used in the pork industry where infected deceased pigs and their manure are fed to breeding pigs. It it also called controlled oral exposure or sometimes oral controlled exposure. It is done in an attempt to make the breeding pigs garner some degree of immunity to circulating diseases.[1] There is no standard protocol resulting in some swine researchers calling the procedure potentially risky and noting that it is often done in an unsafe manner.[2][3] The practice has also been criticized by animal welfare and animal rights groups calling it disturbing and or unethical.
[…]
However, feedback usage extends beyond diseases where vaccines do not yet exist. In 2012, while 45% of large US herds vaccinated young female pigs against PRRS, 26.6% used feedback (or did so in addition).[6]
[…]
The usage of feedback is not limited to just one country or region. Widespread usage has been recorded in at least the 2010s in places such as the United States,[6] Taiwan,[7] Belgium,[8] Japan,[9] South Korea,[10] Thailand,[11] and more. Additionally, following a PEDv outbreak in the 1970s, feedback was commonly used across Europe.[12]
I dug in (thanks for linking sources) and there are some promising details. The ~80% figure for the US is from a 2011 report (even though the citation states 2014…), so it’s very old. In 2019, the US began an initiative to increase awareness of this issue and address it, see the progress here (pdf link).
Not trying to counter the narrative, but at least we’re talking about it on the federal level, so maybe that can provide some optimism to people.
Unfortunately, the trend is in the opposite direction for the US. Here’s a more recent source looking at the use of the most medically important antibiotics and how they have continued to increase
(note: not including all antibiotics so not directly comparable previous citation)
In addition, the proportion of the most medically important antibiotics is increasingly going to farmed animals instead of humans, according to an analysis published in September by the Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC) and One Health Trust. In 2017, the meat industry purchased 62% of the U.S. supply, but by 2020, this rose to 69%.
Even some companies that specifically claim to not use antibiotics, have been found to use antibiotics
Some beef ‘raised without antibiotics’ tests positive for antibiotics in study
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/04/07/antibiotics-found-in-natural-meat/
We recommend four widely applicable high-impact (i.e. low emissions) actions with the potential to contribute to systemic change and substantially reduce annual personal emissions: having one fewer child (an average for developed countries of 58.6 tonnes CO2-equivalent (tCO2e) emission reductions per year), living car-free (2.4 tCO2e saved per year), avoiding airplane travel (1.6 tCO2e saved per roundtrip transatlantic flight) and eating a plant-based diet (0.8 tCO2e saved per year). These actions have much greater potential to reduce emissions than commonly promoted strategies like comprehensive recycling (four times less effective than a plant-based diet) or changing household lightbulbs (eight times less).
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/aa7541/pdf
