Trump in 2016:
She shouldn’t be allowed to run.
If she were to win this election, it would create an unprecedented constitutional crisis.
In that situation we could very well have a sitting president under felony indictment and ultimately a criminal trial.
It would grind the government to a halt.
Source: https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/donald-trump-trial-guilty-hillary-clinton-b2556563.html
Trump criticizes Trump yet again.
Republicans always criticize themselves heavily. Just don’t do anything about it though.
This won’t do anything. His base doesn’t care. They treat this like a sports team. He’s still “their” guy. The Cleveland Browns have a rapist as their quarterback. Despite everyone in Cleveland not being a fan of his extraciricular activities, I have seen no boycotts. I’ve seen no reduction in Browns gear here in Cleveland. I’ve seen no reason to believe that we’ve shown our front office that we won’t stand for a rapist on the team.
It’s the same with trump/republicans. They’ve had several, countless even, oppertunities to exit the highway down the road that is trump. The fact that he emerged in 2016 as the republican nominee at all still feels like it was decided by a round of plinko.
They should have looked at him from before 2016 and said no. They could have exited anytime between 2017-2021. They could have exited over J6. They could have exited in the aftermath of J6.
They stayed on the highway that whole time. They aren’t getting off. They’re going to ride that highway until they drive off a cliff at the end.
And in that sense, this article/post/video is nothing but a feel good moment for everyone else that ultimately doesn’t do, or change ANYTHING. Remember, he JUST claimed he never said “lock her up”. His base is unphased.
I have no credibility or relevant qualifications. I’m just some random moron on the internet, but here’s my opinion:
His base has been manipulated. They have a sunken cost. Each time something new and horrible comes out about Donald Trump, they have to either be OK with it or come to terms with the idea that they may have been wrong about him this whole time. They’ll react emotionally to this dilemma as if being wrong in this case would constitute a personal attack on their character.
With every new lie he tells or every new horrible thing he does, his supporters are forced to embrace it. And it just compounds. If they question him now, that would mean they’d have to question the hundreds of other things about him they’ve accepted.
So if he says “the sky is green” then they have to accept it as fact. Because if they question it, then they have to question if he told the truth about getting a fair trial, and then they have to question if he actually tried to cover up sleeping with a porn star, then they have to question if he slept with a porn star, etc etc all the way back for at least a decade. It’s much easier just to accept the latest small lie than question everything you’ve believed for so long.
No, if he says “The sky is green,” they don’t believe him. They turn to watch your face as you meltdown over it. Nobody cares if he slept with a porn star and fudged some paperwork, they just care that it makes you spin out into this kind of nonsense.
God damn. I HOPE you’re wrong. As that would imply that roughly 48% of america is voting because of this refusal to admit to themselves that they were wrong.
Hell, I KNOW I’m wrong a lot. There’s no reason to say “oh, maybe I shouldn’t have done that.” And then fix your mistakes. There’s even times I’m right 100% through an event, and then contexts change, and you have to admit the way you did it was actually wrong for reasons that hadn’t happened yet in that moment.
We used to LOVE trump in 2004. Long before he was a politician. We loved him because he was easy to laugh at, and immitate in a mocking manner. But, now I know that watching clips of him on tv, only gave him ratings, kept him with a weekly paycheck for doing nothing. I now know if he went bankrupt in the 2000s, he wouldn’t have had the standing or money to run a campaign in 2016.
So, oops. I was wrong for that. Difference is, we loved him like a clown. These people today love him like a savior. Which I do not understand.
These people today love him like a savior. Which I do not understand.
It’s very simple. For the last 30 years, liberals have become more and more self-righteous, arrogant, and idiotic in the policies they pursue. You’ve all lost any ability to argue and defend your positions, relying on cheap tactics like name-calling to mock, deride and dismiss the right without actually defending your increasingly insane positions. You’re all so far up your asses, so bigoted and condescending, that it has become impossible to have any sort of political dialogue.
They hate you, they can’t reason with you, they can’t even get you talk to them without calling them fascists and bigots, all while you ignore the harm your own policies are causing. Donald Trump is your punishment. The people don’t love him a savior, they love him because he’s a giant middle finger in your face, and it makes you throw a temper tantrum.
No, his base hasn’t been manipulated. They like Trump for one reason and one reason only: He makes you gnash your teeth. Trump is their revenge on you for being such self-righteous arrogant dicks and cheating in the political process. The only way Trump could lose luster in their eyes is if you guys all stopped freaking out about Trump, which won’t happen.
Do you care to elaborate on how Trump is revenge? I am honestly interested in your opinion.
I think these “self-righteous arrogant dick” people are a very small minority of Democrat voters, just as any unflattering stereotype of Republican voters is only an accurate representation of the most unpleasant members of that group.
I think part of the appeal of Donald Trump seems to have something to do with the fact that he is (or at least has been, or projects the appearance of being) rich and powerful, and then is just blatantly honest about the level of corruption and hypocrisy that the rich and powerful get away with. I think people like that honesty. Nobody wants to live in a rigged system.
However, (and I think this is the part where you’ll get frustrated with me) he seems to be highly and openly corrupt. I think he wants to make corruption and abuse of power seem normal so that when he does it, he can act like it isn’t a big deal.
It’s a big deal.
… Not sure that last part is a historical reference or specifically a Crusader Kings reference.
Moon Landing Denier
In fairness to the Moon Landing Deniers, The Shinning is even more fun to watch when you’re convinced its a secret Stanley Kubrick confession.
“gotta write a bad ending… Bad ending hmmm. FROZE TO DEATH ok this is gold”
When I see comments talking about how pointless it is to continue pointing out his hypocritical actions I immediately write that person off as a bot.
If you’re struggling to figure out why it’s important to show this to his stupid constituents then I don’t understand why you’re even commenting. Sit back and let the people interested in effecting change spread this information and shut the fuck up.
I think it should definitely be pointed out, constantly, how much of a hypocrite and liar Trump is, just to get it (and keep it) on the record. Ignoring it would only normalize it more. And maybe some fence sitters didn’t know about it and now they do. Which is a good thing.
At the same time, however, I also believe it’s absolutely pointless, if your goal is to convince any of his followers. They already know all of this and they don’t care. They don’t love him despite the lies and hypocrisy. They love him because of it. And even if they don’t like it per se, they still won’t turn against him, because they’re accepting way worse and nothing has been a deal breaker so far.
Edit: I have often wondered what Trump would have to do for his followers to abandon him. Is there anything they wouldn’t accept?
Is there anything they wouldn’t accept
Find them and ask them.
Discussing on forums like these is all find and good, but in the end it’s lots of Preaching To The Choir. What people need to do is find a Red Hatter and ask them what it would take to choose their country over their party.
Outreach will win the day.
Find them and ask them.
You have apparently had much more productive conversations with trumpers than I ever have.
ask them what it would take to choose their country over their party.
And, it’s not hard to predict their answers.
- Treat trans people like monsters and pedophiles, and legislate as such.
- Knock gays back to the 80s or earlier via legislation
- The rest of the queer community needs to STFU and pretend they don’t exist.
- Cancel all DEI programs and make them illegal
- Immigration? No thank you!
- Make Pride month celebrations illegal at all businesses or public areas
- Follow the DeSantis model of history teaching, by trying to claim slavery was a benefit to slaves, or that Rosa Parks was just having a bad day and sat at the wrong end of the bus, etc
- Support police without question - as long as it’s the blacks, gays, antifa, and left-leaning protesters they are beating up on
- Eliminate birth control and abortions nationally
- Put back all those civil war memorials because muh heritage
- Restrict college and high school curricula to Republican-approved materials on a national level
- Cease all climate-change measures or spending
- Acknowledge there is no solution to gun violence that involves restricting the activities of gun owners.
That’s pretty close to the list for anyone who is flying a Trump flag. And if it’s not on their list, it’s still not a dealkiller.
Outreach will win the day.
You’d need to put me in kevlar and pay me a lot to go knocking on maga doors all day.
Edit: (I promise I know who Rosa Parks and Harriet Tubman were, I just flipped the name by accident in my haste!) https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/rosa-parks-race-removed-florida-textbook/
Well, I get what you’re saying, but I’m European and while there are plenty of right-wingers here, I haven’t met any actual obvious Trumpers so far, though I’m sure plenty of them do like Trump.
Was just kinda wondering ‘out loud’ if there is an actual line somewhere and what it would be. It seems to me it’s much easier for democrats to turn against their politicians than it is for republicans.
Regarding your edit (i. e., what would it take for Trump followers to change their mind), go hit YouTube with a search for “Jordan Klepper fingers the pulse” and watch some of those. A more recent one, in which he speaks to Niki Haley supporters, demonstrates what are likely “more reasonable” Republicans regarding Trump, and probably best answers your question. Most feature him speaking to Trump supporters at Trump rallies. One features him talking to supporters during (yes, you read that correctly) the January 6 insurrection. Watching these will help understand the entrenched mindset. Hilarious and horrifying.
The mental exercise is… what would Biden have to do to get you to vote for the Republican Party? Or even to get you to just not vote at all? I know it’s a false equivalency, but it gives you some sense of the lines we all draw in the sand, and the “activation energy” that it takes to change our minds.
He could be as overtly criminal as Donald, taking money from Russia and the Saudis in exchange for top secret documents and lists of CIA agents, and I’d still be voting as long as he doesn’t also do an insurrection. FPTP and having all Repubs back a criminal as their preferred leader has really backed me into a corner.
IDK that the mental exercise is helpful in 2024. If the point is to say that they feel the same about Biden, that’s because they have been brainwashed by far-right propaganda. The activation energy it takes to sway them is cult deprogramming.
Actively supporting a genocide with billions of USD in goods seems like a great reason to not vote for Biden anymore
If you’re struggling to figure out why it’s important to show this to his stupid constituents then I don’t understand why you’re even commenting. Sit back and let the people interested in effecting change spread this information and shut the fuck up.
What I’m struggling with is to find evidence from past events which would lead you to believe his voters are going to be changed by showing them any of this. You’ve got the folks who do not care because they are Trump cultists, then you have the folks who would vote for Satan himself if he had R next to his name.
Everyone else is already not going to vote for him.
So what change do we think showing this to his supporters is going to effect?
I think notorious waffler Lindsey Graham has proved conclusively that showing them their own hypocrisy is absolutely and completely pointless. They don’t care. They want theirs in power and they don’t give a shit how they get them there or what they’ve done before they got there. That’s why they can scream about non-existent child molesters and pedophiles on the left while voting for right wingers who’ve been actually found to be such.
I want you to use my words against me. If there’s a Republican president in 2016 and a vacancy occurs in the last year of the first term, you can say Lindsey Graham said, ‘Let’s let the next president, whoever it might be, make that nomination,’ and you could use my words against me and you’d be absolutely right.
-Lindsay “nothing I say matters” Graham
