Everyone I’ve talked to that has used a Vision Pro has said it’s an incredible piece of magical technology, but it’s utterly useless.
It’s literally just Apple flexing.
but it’s utterly useless.
That imo has been the issue with VR/AR for a while now. The Hardware as you said is pretty good by now and looking at something like the quest even afforable. What’s lacking is content and use cases.
Smartphones had an easier time being adopted, since it was just moving from a larger to a smaller screen. But VR/AR actually needs a new type of content to make use of it’s capabilities. And there you run into a chicken/egg problem, where no one is putting in the effort (and vr content is harder to produce) without a large user base.
Just games and some office stuff (that you can do just as well on a regular pc) aren’t cutting it. You’d need stuff like every major sport event being broadcast with unique content, e.g. formula one with the ability to put yourself into the driver seat of any car.
You’ve nailed it. Ordinarily, Apple is good at throwing its weight (money) around to make things like this happen, but it seems like there weren’t many takers this go-round, so we just got an overpriced, beautiful and fascinating paperweight.
That’s why the biggest use case for VR has been gaming and metaverses. It’s a ready-to-go thing that adapts well, but it’s certainly not for everyone. For my part, I’m saving up for a PS VR2, because it’s adding PC support soon and I already own a PS5 as well. Far, far cheaper than Apple’s device, and likely quite good still.
Ordinarily, Apple is good at throwing its weight (money) around to make things like this happen, but it seems like there weren’t many takers this go-round, so we just got an overpriced, beautiful and fascinating paperweight.
Yeah normally Apple is maybe the only company that has the scale and control over their ecosystem to force rapid adoption. But this was clearly not a consumer product aimed at capturing the masses, but more or less a dev kit sold to anyone willing to shell out the price.
The PS VR2 sounds nice, but feels like it is only aimed at the gaming market and even there sony only captures a fraction.
The Quest as a standalone device imo really would have the best shot at mass market adoption, but Facebook rightfully has an image problem. And despite spending so much on development doesn’t seem to create any content or incentivize others to do so.
Edit: actually kind of forgot “bigscreenVR”. I am somewhat surprised that the default is to cram all hardware into the headset making it much bulkier instead of a seperate piece on a belt, back, or maybe strap on your upper arm.
To be fair, they have a similar problem with iPad, but they can flog those at a price point where many people are happy to grab one to see how they can make it fit.
The overarching opinion of iPads is that they’re just big iPhones, and because they can share apps, it took a long time to get to where we are now, where most iPad apps are actually developed for it. But ultimately, they’re still iPhone apps, just rejigged to take advantage of the bigger screen. As someone with an iPad and a MacBook, who’s had a really good go at making an iPad my main computer, the platform just isn’t there. So if I do use it, it’s always in the knowledge that what I’m doing is probably easier on my Mac.
VisionPro feels the same to me. Sure, I could surround myself with work, but pinching and tapping nothing in the air has zero tactility and is far less satisfying than clicking a mouse and typing on a keyboard. And comes with having to wear a headset. So in the end, most people will just do the work on their Mac.
When the HTC Vive and Oculus Rift first came out, the rift didn’t yet have full-room support. You had to sit facing the base station and use a video game controller. Meanwhile, on Vive, you could stand up, walk around, and manipulate the world with two tracked remotes.
One pro-con comparison I read at the time actually listed needing to walk around the room as a con against HTC. That is the whole point of VR.
I think the core issue is that every piece of new technology so far has helped us get lazier. People used to walk around an office, then they sat at a computer, now they carry their computer with them and do things from the couch.
Nobody wants to get up to do things if they can avoid it, and that’s the only real benefit VR/AR provides.
Meanwhile, on Vive, you could stand up, walk around, and manipulate the world with two tracked remotes.
Issue is that if I remember correctly the vive was an outside-in concept that required base stations to be setup. So you lose the cable, but are still bound by location. And importantly also needs a pc aswell. So still far away from standalone.
I think the core issue is that every piece of new technology so far has helped us get lazier. People used to walk around an office, then they sat at a computer, now they carry their computer with them and do things from the couch.
Nobody wants to get up to do things if they can avoid it, and that’s the only real benefit VR/AR provides
But I think VR/AR could make us lazier:
For VR the promise is immersion. You get to experience a concert, sport event, unique experience or exotic place from your own living room. And for many of that it is just fine to sit on a couch and still have a benefit from the technology.
For AR i think it’s a bit more productivity focused. For example less need to train personel, if you can project every instruction into their field of view.
This may be true for AR, but it is emphatically not true for VR. There are dozens of amazing games that are extremely addictive and fun. Steam VR is no joke, it’s a very solid store these days.
There are dozens of amazing games
…and 99% of them are tech demos.
Compare it to an industry that publishes over 10 thousand games every year, on Steam alone. Then you start to understand how VR is just a niche hobbyist toy. Not a mainstream product. Making VR experiences is several times harder while also aiming at a minuscule tiny market. VR is perhaps today on par to where general computing and gaming was in the 70s. Neat concept, not enough use cases and product development, still way too cumbersome and expensive.
There are tons of excellent VR games that aren’t flight sims. As an example, Vertigo 2 is an excellent first person shooter and Blade and Sorcery is an excellent fighting game.
Volumetric video for sports is interesting because it offers VR users the option to ‘be there’, but the provider can also offer desktop/mobile users the option to control their own virtual camera. I can kinda see it taking off in a few years when more cheaper/lighter headsets with good passthrough arrive.
as a VR enthusiast: if the had just added controllers it would have made it so much more useable.
No matter how good your gesture controlls are, it still greatly limits its use. Theres a reason we use mice and styluses with computers, instead of touch and mid-air gestures!
Are there still no 3rd party controllers? It seems like controllers like the quest pro has (that can track themselves) would be an easy match. I guess meta is spending millions on development though, so it’s probably not something easily made by a small company.
I would think Bluetooth should provide enough bandwidth, but IDK if apple’s OS is configurable enough to support something like that.
I think you can pair something like an xbox controller… but i havn’t heard of any spatial controllers.
Apple is all flash and show, and they advertised it as “you dont need controllers, just use your hands”… which is great for some things, but will never be good for a lot of applications.
I use mine daily… primarily as a monitor for my laptop.
Now you might think that’s dumb, but I can go sit outside in the backyard, park, beach, coffee shop, wherever and work on a big, totally private, crisp and clear, glare-free anywhere monitor. I can bring it to the in-laws or on trips and even use it as a monitor for my Steam Deck. Or I can lay in bed or on the sofa or on a lawn chair and use the Steam Link app to play games from my PC.
Taken purely as a private, portable, omni-monitor, it’s absolutely worth the price for me.
As an AR/MR/XR device, it has some MAJOR software problems. Honestly, it makes sense they’d pause hardware development… it’ll be a couple years before there’s anything worth upgrading and they have a long way to go on UX, gestures, inputs, and even basic real-time object recognition and tracking. I bought mine knowing it was a Development Kit and planning to use it to get ahead on AR development experience, but I hit major roadblocks so frequently I’ve just about given up on every interesting use-case I went into this with.
VisionOS 2 is a baby step forward, but Apple has a long, long way to go before it makes sense for regular people. Heck, they aren’t even including all the cool new AI features in VisionOS 2, and it’s the one device that could benefit from that stuff the most.
So, yeah… it can still be worth it to certain people with specific use-cases, but I think it’ll be a solid 5 years before the software and hardware can reach a “normal consumer” level of quality and value.
Do you mind sharing if you feel fatigue if you use it as a monitor for long durations. I feel headphone fatigue with my ears getting too warm very quickly for example. Anything of that sort physically, and how about eye strain?
Two part answer: yes and no.
Default Straps: Bad
The included straps leave all the weight at the front of your head, so you will feel neck strain as a result of the constant weight imbalance. This is a common problem with HMDs… it’s not the weight, but the fact that it’s not balanced, forcing your neck muscles to compensate. Additionally, the design relies on facial pressure to keep the HMD in place… and while the “light shield” is not uncomfortable, it’s still pressure.
Aftermarket Straps: Good
HOWEVER, we are starting to see some creative after-market solutions. I am currently using a BOBOVR M3 Mini with some 3D-printed AVP adapters. To fix the weight balance problem I put adhesive tire weights on the back as a counter-balance (same thing I did with PSVR2). With this solution, it’s infinitely more comfortable than either standard strap… no neck strain, dramatically reduced face pressure… I can go all day. You can get the 3d printed adapters on Etsy, if you’re curious.
As for the eye strain/vision: Ordinarily I need reading glasses for normal things, but on the AVP I don’t need anything. There is no eye strain and everything is crisp and sharp and clear… without any Rx inserts.
This is the reason I want one. I really want to take a long haul flight with one paired to my wireless keychron with Mx blue switches, and proceed to code for the entire flight.
… long haul flight… mx blue…
I’m not sure if you’re joking but it’s hilarious either way.
VR in its current form, I agree, has only one real use.
But when improved upon and made smaller, I could easily see it being used to watch TV or similar. I’ve done that on a few flights and it was decent.
Not to mention, VR is a necessary step to get to AR, and AR has many more applications. Screens with anything anywhere, for one. Imagine a computer with one monitor, but numerous virtual monitors. Or a TV on your ceiling.
It’s iterative. Gaming just happens to be the current driver.
Human will immediately adopt anything they can carry with them. But humans have a very strong repulsion to adopting anything they have to wear or in general have permanently on them. It is uncomfortable, it is hot, it is annoying, it is visible, it is a wall between them and the world. There are people who don’t wear their correction glasses because they don’t like having something on their faces. There are people who don’t even withstand contact glasses. There are deaf people who refuse to use hearing implants. Wrist watches are tolerated because they are more peripheral and easier to remove.
This is a way more fundamental flaw on the concept of VR than technology, applications, software availability, etc. You can make VR as tiny and practical as contact glasses and people will still refuse to adopt it.
Then it’s just useless…
The blackberry was the exact opposite, it was an unpolished piece of ugly hardware that was, at the time, incredibly useful
Pretty tech that accomplishes nothing is akin to the garbage toy lights they peddled to kids in Disney… Just landfill e-waste
Used or owned? I own one and bought several for my company and they’re not useless at all. They’re just limited in the AR/VR experiences you can do right now. As a computer, productivity, and production device, it’s far from useless.
DARPA is going to have to play with this for a while before it gets to a point where it’s actually useful to the general public. And they are playing with it.
“Hey look what we could do at six times the price point” isn’t a flex, it’s stupidity.
Like why not just release Apple brand Skis, or team up with Nike and make some shoes, or Jewelry if you want to do high priced stuff rich idiots pay for.
It’s a flex because the vision pro has the best optics and display technology ever made. It’s stupid because it has no use. It’s not a flex because it’s expensive, it’s expensive because it’s a flex, if that makes sense.
Note that suspends != cancelled and it’s just the “Pro”, with a cheaper model allegedly in the works.
We’ll see where a cheaper model lands in terms of price, but it’s very clear now that $3500+ isn’t really the price range where most people buy something out of curiosity. Because let’s face it: the Vision (Pro) still lacks a “killer app” for the masses.
That’s the important bit that everybody is missing:
Apple has suspended work on the second-generation Vision Pro headset to singularly focus on a cheaper model
Clicking through to the paywalled article, the headlines reads as follows:
Apple Suspends Work on Next Vision Pro, Focused on Releasing Cheaper Model in Late 2025.
I am as unoptimistic on the future of VR as everybody else here, but can we please leave the nuance in? Apple are not turning the key on VR, at least not yet, they are simply doing the predicable thing that everybody said their would: Release a VR headset that isn’t targeted at developers only.
My impression of the Vision Pro was that it was built and priced for developers to buy and expense and then build VR apps with it. That way when the consumer version comes out there’s stuff in the app store.
Apple has suspended work on the second-generation Vision Pro headset to singularly focus on a cheaper model
That seems very reasonable and like what they probably should’ve been doing all along.
I still don’t understand who the pro was actually for. Everyone who had one said exactly the same thing about it which was they couldn’t understand how to use it productively for anything.
Exactly. Not promoting it as a dev kit was a major failure. This is the kind of product where you CAN’T do without external feedback, not everybody will use one in a clean office (or even one that stands still), not everybody has the same spatial awareness or motor skills, not supporting controllers locks out numerous people with limited hand movements, etc… As a dev kit it could’ve worked much better at getting the kind of feedback they need from devs working on useful AR stuff
The kind of people who would go around driving a Cybertruck with a Vision Pro on their faces and an humane pin strapped on.
Companies have been pushing VR so long now. I’ll say that I think the tech is cool and the idea is cool, but I will literally never use them.
I can’t wear them while working as I am in meetings 99% of the time.
I would not wear them in my free time, as I do not want to disassociate from my wife and cats.
I love VR. So I use it for gaming maybe once a week, for 1-2 hours, usually as an activity with my SO so we can switch who’s playing each “round” depending on the game. That’s the maximum I find fun instead of tiring. I can’t see using it for long periods or for work, that sounds like a nightmare.
My issue is, aside from gaming, I’m not interacting with the content or data in any meaningful, improved way.
VR for real life is just a series of flat two dimensional screens, usually with a novelty background of a waterfall.
Yeah, I think it could be useful for CAD or 3D art (with proper software) but I can’t think of many other jobs where it would be all that helpful.
This is just a price to function issue.
If the price was 0 everyone would have one.
But the cost of it is way too high for what it is. Price and weight etc will come down. Uses will increase.
Have one != Use one. I own two and stopped using them ages ago. All of them are too clunky and I realized I’m generally too lazy to want to interact with stuff in VR vs my more comfortable media consumption on a TV and a couch.
Maybe if they were super lightweight and I could legitimately do real exercise with them they’d be useful, but as is they’re too hot, too uncomfortable and too limited.
I would only use VR in racing, flight sim, or space sim games. probably once a couple of months after the initial excitement.
Aren’t the meetings pushed as one of the basic function of these? But I guess it only makes sense if most of the participants use them and software has the support.
I have found my headset useful for work, when working from home and I don’t do camera on meetings anyway.
At home it’s pretty nice, and since my ears are open I can actually talk, so my wife actually prefers it over me wearing headphones. But all things in moderation, I wouldn’t wear it constantly.
Despite being a huge fan of the concept, I still couldn’t go for Apple’s headset, it’s heavy, it’s expensive, and lack of controllers are all deal breakers. The Quest 3 is lighter, has good controllers, and is more affordable. It may not have the displays as nice as Vision, but that doesn’t make up for the rest of the stuff.
Bro, just one more year. Let them come up with just another pair of goggles bro, trust me bro, one more year and we will be in VR future bro.
I’m still waiting for:
- good Linux support, including apps/games
- not too expensive - $500-ish
- relatively privacy-friendly, so anything Meta is out
Valve Index is close, but it’s expensive and Linux content is very limited. Bigscreen VR Headsets looks interesting since it seems more comfortable than Index, just as privacy-friendly, and should work on Linux, but it’s still a little expensive ($1k) and there aren’t many Linux VR apps AFAIK. I might get it though, still deciding.
This requires an Apple iPhone XR or newer, as the face scan utilizes the TrueDepth sensor.
I’d rather take a plaster mold of my face than have to use a specific phone to order a VR headset.
I could probably borrow my wife’s iPhone, but agree, this isn’t great and is part of why I don’t own one. I’m guessing the custom cushion is a significant part of the price (and the appeal), so hopefully they make an alternative at some point.
