If you ever wanted to read about fake druids vs. environmental activists, now’s your chance.
Those stones will be suuuper useful to us after we died because our global ecosystem collapsed.
Maybe we should set up our own stones for explaining to future generations why we didnt do anything about climate change until it was too late.
I’m not sure how this helps though. These people can say to future generations, “well, we didn’t get people to stop using fossil fuels, but we did damage a 5000-year-old monument that was made long before anyone had the idea of burning fossil fuels to make people aware of a problem they were already aware of but powerless to do anything about.”
This isn’t going to stop oil companies from drilling for oil.
It reminds me of a friend of mine I used to follow elsewhere on social media. Every day, she would post pictures of ‘death row dogs’ in nearby shelters that were going to be euthanized. There was fuck all I could do about it. I already have two dogs, from shelters. I don’t have room for more and I couldn’t afford more. So all it did was make me feel like shit. Then she started posting photos with “too late” messages and I stopped following her.
How does that help?
Which does exactly what? Is it at all likely that anyone actually able to do anything about this was unaware of the climate change disaster we’re facing and this will change their mind?
But we’re not talking about it. We’re not talking about political action, or technological solutions, or mitigation programs, or investments in adaptation, or natural resource management, or harm reduction, or food distribution, or drought management.
No, we’re talking about a bunch of first world children who decided to paint a bunch of ten-thousand year old rocks for attention.
Note how we are talking about how large of douchebags the activists are and just how much they damaged a cultural heritage site.
Fuck these people.
but we did damage a 5000-year-old monument
As far as I could find out, they used orange cornflour that will just wash off the next time it rains. The most amount of damage anyone could seriously bring up was that it could harm/displace the lichen on the henge.
That’s not to say that I specifically condone the action, but it’s a lot less bad than this article makes it sound. It’s the same with the soup attack on one of van Gogh’s painting, which had protective glass on it. So far all the JSO actions targeting cultural/historical things (at least the ones that made it to the big news) have been done in a way that makes them sound awful at first hearing, but intentionally did not actually damage the targeted cultural/historical thing.
I think the biases of the journalist/news outlet/etc. are somewhat exposed by which parts they focus on and which they downplay or omit entirely.
I hope you’re right because this article says they used a spray can.
Also, orange dye can easily get into cracks in the rocks and stay there for a very long time. Especially if it displaces the lichens. That won’t make it collapse, so maybe ‘damage’ is not the right word, but this is potentially long-lasting vandalism which, as far as I can see, will have no effect on the actual problem.
I agree, I think they’ve been remarkably responsible about avoiding lasting damage. What upsets me is how they’re fueling the far-right rage machine with more propaganda ammunition at a time when we are already fighting a fierce and undecided battle to live in a world that isn’t run by exclusionary ideological nationalistic idiots.
It’s like they cannot understand that some people don’t want the world saved, and agree with Hitler when he wrote about the tears of war being the bread of future generations. A sentiment that basically says suffering=good. So, more suffering=better. Will climate change cause suffering? Well, guess what then.
Normally I would say this damage was inappropriate. But, considering humanity is going to be eradicated in the next hundred years, give or take, I think maybe we should be doing more to slow that down.
FWIW this kind of alarmist talk only lets people write off your comment as hysterical. Humans are not going to go extinct in the next 100 years, Canada isnt going to become hotter than Arabia and become unlivable.
What we might (and even possibly the most likely scenario is to) get is wide scale societal breakdown, starvation of billions, mass migration of billions of those currently living in regions that become uninhabitable but dont starve, and the consequant resource wars that those entail. The future is bleak enough without making up even worse things that wont happen.
Yet this kind of protests just alienates the protesters from the population they want support from
Many of the recent protests about climate change have been less direct and more about stirring up controversy to force the public to actually think about their decisions.
My hat off to them as so far this style of protest has been working and has resulted in many of us pushing for better climate control.
You’re right this isn’t going to stop companies, but even if you disagreed with them it puts climate change in your conscious mind. Even if that simply means you’ll try to make slightly more climate friendly decisions moving forwards, that’s a win.
Personally I don’t know if I agree with the technique, but I do feel like it has been working in terms of making people discuss this topic more.
If a dog urinates into a river which then floods, would you say the dog’s urination caused the flood?
My wife works in environmental advocacy, and I can tell you without a shred of doubt that people’s opinions are changing on climate change for a lot of different reasons. This ridiculous nonsense isn’t one of them.
My hat off to them as so far this style of protest has been working and has resulted in many of us pushing for better climate control.
I don’t know that I believe that is because of these protests and not just seeing what’s happening to the world. I really do not see pissing people off by painting Stonehenge, especially when it’s during a religious festival, helping this cause.
Your example shows exactly what people are missing. Just because you did not have the capacity for more dogs doesnt mean that other people never got convinced to save one of those dogs. If those pictures convinced even just one person to adopt a dog, then it was worth the minor inconvienience that you had to go through.
Similarly the actual damage from this protest is slim to none (if they used the same stuff as usual that just washes away with water) and if it convinces somebody to get politically active for climate change then it was already worth it.
You thinking that you are powerless, shouldnt result in other people being forced to be powerless when they are not.
That’s not how climate change works. Everybody except for politicians and fossil fuel executives are me in this scenario. We’re just being told constantly how the world is getting hotter and something must be done and there’s fuck all I can do about it. And that’s also true of every person at Stonehenge that day.
We can’t control where the energy comes from and what cars are made and what bottles drinks are put in. And it’s really clear that it doesn’t matter who we vote for either.
So, in this situation, people see these stunts and just get angry and stop paying attention since there’s nothing they can do about it anyway.
Again, how does this help?
Who’s actually doing that, though? I mean that sincerely. Is there anyone who wouldn’t have gotten involved, but who was swayed to do so by orange paint on historical artifacts? This seems like directionless compensatory venting by activists whose other strategies are failing to meaningfully persuade.
Further, what’s the balance of people in the other direction who have an inkling that they’d consider doing more, but who are swayed against it by the increasingly unhinged extremist tactics these protestors are using? There’s an entire online ecosystem rife with a combination of climate denialism, analytical paralysis, and doomsaying, and there’s a non-zero number of people who likely either stop caring or throw their hands up in frustration because protestors are doing more harm than good by throwing what I’m sure looks to them like ridiculous tantrums. For every ally they gain, they probably lose some, too.
And that’s not even touching on the fact that systemic structural changes are the only possible solution to this problem, and making the average person feel guilty and/or agitated is a weird form of victim shaming.
It’s not the same thing. At least your friend was calling attention to a cause she cared about
Here in the US we have one of the two main political factions regularly threatening terrorism, execution and even war.
When people are already arguing to take you out behind the chemical shed and shoot you, it’s a little out of touch to think they give two shits about your future health in a changing climate. Or our planet, they probably think they can get to Mars with Elon or something, or god will rapture them, or whatever they think, I don’t know.
You think people should care about future generations? They probably should, but we have parents that don’t give two shits about their own kids, much less anyone else’s.
As always, while I support their claimed ideals, I can only see them as petty vandals who care more about attention seeking than their cause. They certainly won’t get any of my time or attention. If you’re against Big Oil, protest Big Oil and half the population will agree. If you’re intentionally seeking my outrage with unrelated crap, you got it: rot in jail
Yeah I don’t know why they wouldn’t block the entrance to an oil refinery. Some people would be unhappy about this especially the people that work there. But the general public could understand, who knows it could possibly slow production for a few days.
They have. Compared to this, it got barely any news coverage.
That is why they do this. Their only goal is attention, and they do that quite well.
The way they seem to operate is quite smart, actually:
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Their stunts get a lot of press and bring climate change to the forefront of people’s minds, frequently.
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They’re not a political party, so pissing voters off isn’t a problem. They can afford to be unpopular to further the cause.
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Those who already care about the climate won’t change that based on a small group they dislike.
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Those who call them “terrorists” are people who call anything short of licking oil company boot “eco-terrorism”. They were never going to be convinced to care whatever the group does. Probably read the Daily Mail.
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Those who are apathetic about the climate are still going to be apathetic, with a bit of rage towards this group as with the others, but again, ultimately that doesn’t matter as they still won’t change anything based on a single group.
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A small handful of people will be inspired by them and their constant reminders of climate crisis, and be motivated to push for change.
The last bullet seems to be the target audience of the group. And they’re the ones who will actually do anything.
Their only goal is attention
This is not scammy advertising where “any attention is good attention”. This is an important cause where we need to build support
They can afford to be unpopular to further the cause.
Sure, no donations, no popular support, they can just be marginalized and ignored as a bunch of extremists. Everyone cheers when the cops cart them off to jail. Yay for attention though
Those who are apathetic about the climate are still going to be apathetic, with a bit of rage
This is where they’re wrong, and where I’m especially frustrated when it’s a cause I agree with. All those middle ground or non-active people who could be wooed as supporters, will now dismiss the cause as a bunch of annoying kooks. Nobody caused change by driving away potential supporters
They silence a lot of people fighting for climate change by making it harder for everyone to discuss this. They make it much harder every time they pull one of these stunts. Its not smart unless you’re talking about the oil industry execs funding them
Why not fund raise and set up a lobby group and fund politicians to pass laws. Why stand in traffic. Seems like the most ineffective backward steps
Why not fund raise and set up a lobby group and fund politicians to pass laws.
Do you think some kids are going to be able to buy the support of politicians by outbidding the oil companies?
They do it because the stuff you’re asking for doesn’t work that well, but this does (that said they do still engage in those actions as far as I’m aware). Activism is about making noise, there aren’t many tools beyond that and they’ve worked for all sorts of issues in the past.
The point is that JSO doesn’t exist in a vacuum.
https://wagingnonviolence.org/2023/12/the-method-behind-just-stop-oil-annoying-madness/
the stuff you’re asking for doesn’t work that well, but this does
I didn’t think that this works. The examples where people claim “is just like this” I don’t see as being like this.
The ones that work are ones that have some relation to their cause. Forcing everyone to really think about an issue Inherent to the act. For example, going about and doing this to parked private jets, which they did.
Just doing anything to get attention isn’t useful if there’s no Inherent message in the act itself. Especially with climate where everyone already has awareness, just not action.
Being merely loud is not going to sway hearts and minds in your favor.
Not paint, literally orange corn flour that’ll wash off with the first rain. Stop spreading disinformation for big oil pls. Idk why they went for this instead of classical art, but acting like this is some terrible evil crime is exactly what oil companies want you to think, they want you to root against people protesting climate change, no matter how tiny their vandalism is in the grand scheme of things
The article says it came out of a spray can. So how am I spreading misinformation?
Not misinformation, disinformation. You read the article, yet choose to act like this is comparable to spray paint or something else that won’t immediately wash off. This is like getting indignant bc somebody threw a couple eggs at a great pyramid. It’s stupid and irrelevant to climate change, but sharing articles where the title says they threw acid instead of eggs is just fucking wrong, and serves no purpose besides discrediting climate activism
Edit actually this article says nothing about corn flour, sorry for accusing you of ignoring that. That’s super shady and shitty on the Guardian’s part, a detail that majorly changes how actually harmful this act was
Double edit you’re still acting like they threw actual paint, so nvm my apology. Stop being such a blatant oil shill
It’s stone. Stone is full of cracks. It will get into those cracks and not wash off.
Furthermore, environmentalists pissing people off in the middle of a religious ceremony does nothing to help with an environmental cause. That’s the way PETA goes about doing things. Do you think they’ve been remotely effective?
They posted the article with the headline completely unchanged. If you wanna be mad at someone, be mad at The Guardian.
These activists make fighting to end climate change harder every time they pull this shit. It’s pure asshole behaviour.
People here keep saying it raises awareness. Who isn’t aware at this point? And why do they think doing this sort of thing helps the cause? Pissing people off doesn’t get them on your side, it does the opposite.
Yea I struggle with understanding that explanation too. I think something that plays a huge part of this is personalities that group together. Most people understand how important social game is. All activists seem like they have no social awareness. Their only goal is attention. They take the idea that there is no bad publicity to an extreme. I really believe many of these activist are being organized and funded by the oil industry without even realizing it. I say that because why wouldn’t they in this day and age. Its easy to funnel money to organizations secretly. We have proof they did this in the past.
https://www.climatefiles.com/exxon-knew/ are full of examples of this.
Great website for anyone interested on this topic. Full of documents from industries going back to the 50s showing internal documents and memos of how they knew and planned to discredit climate action
At this point I feel like it’s akin to art that people just don’t get. The average person doesn’t understand the message or point.
These protestors are committing simple acts that threaten to damage something that people value. People are so very angry that biodegradable paint was sprayed on an ancient monument, or that soup was tossed onto the glass protecting a famous painting.
Yet they continue on with their lives and refuse to hold many corporations accountable while those corporations make our planet less habitable. This would become a wall of text that nobody would read if I tried to just outline the existential threat human society faces thanks to the reckless behavior of many of the organizations. The suffering, loss of life, economic damage… unimaginable… yet we are basically barreling toward that inevitability at full steam.
But I’m sorry, how silly of me. How could I forget that some scientists might lose the opportunity to study undisturbed lichen on Stonehenge this year.
People are so very angry that biodegradable paint was sprayed on an ancient monument, or that soup was tossed onto the glass protecting a famous painting.
What is so maddening about this comment is how much it proves my point that you don’t see. You need to accept it doesn’t matter if the overall damage is none existent. Just like how a magician is never in danger or a wrestler isn’t getting punched in the head. And we’re all still left with strong feelings and compel us, sometimes even to action.
The real danger is not as important as the perceived danger. You’re showing something to so many people that the average opinions becomes very important and the average opinion doesn’t view this favorably. This is obvious to everybody but the activists who convince themselves this is the height of civil action.
And the end result is scientists don’t get funding. Scientist funding is funded through public interests. Organizations, industry and taxes go to fund research. And when activists start stirring shit up, it makes many shrinking back like turtle heads until it blows over.
What is so maddening about this comment is how much it proves my point that you don’t see.
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This was literally the first sentence of my post. I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear enough and “maddened you”.
At this point I feel like it’s akin to art that people just don’t get. The average person doesn’t understand the message or point.
I personally don’t often enjoy art. In particular, the art where the artists are creating some kind of layered metaphor like a blank canvas with a cryptic title or something. The artist might be trying to communicate that consumerism will never fill our need for social contact or whatever but the message is lost on me.
The same thing applies here for most people I think. However, for once I actually see a meaning in it. I get horrified by the act, then I read later how little actual damage is done. Then I reflect on it and realize there is no way the protestors didn’t know that the Mona Lisa was protected by glass. There is no way they accidentally used the least harmful bright paint they could find on Stonehenge… and it occurs to me that I was so immediately upset at the perceived harm but have become desensitized to news of the actual harm of climate change.
I’m not stating that this message is obvious or that people are stupid if they are angry - I’m stating it gets lost and most people don’t get it. Yes, I’m a bit angry that the media often never mentions up front how little damage is done in any headlines I see. It’s usually “climate activists throw soup on Mona Lisa, arrested, condemned by bystanders and art lovers everywhere” not “activists harmlessly throw soup on painting protected by glass to demonstrate humanity’s questionable priorities”. Sure, the glass can be in the article somewhere but nobody bothers to read that far.
Regardless, I agree that the end result isn’t helping because most people don’t understand. I, however, sympathetic with the activists and felt compelled to explain the message as I saw it.
What is most interesting to me is that the “powers that be” have so much influence over the news that I feel like harmless acts of protests have lost their power and are demonized by default. Climate change, income inequality, police abuse, Gaza… I’m honestly concerned that people with very legitimate concerns (at least, in my mind) will have to further escalate their actions in order to feel heard. This is just the beginning I think.
“I must say tonight that a riot is the language of the unheard.” MLK
One hopes the powder doesn’t cause any lasting damage to a priceless piece of human cultural heritage.
That is my worry. Even if it gets washed off by rain, it can get into cracks.
