Considering October 7th, and the war since then, do you think that this is a possible solution? I note that a lot of the the population are quite strong in the religion believes. And I note that both religions list revenge as part of their values. Do you think that enough trust can be built anytime soon?

And also, about colonialism, there is no dispute that Jewish people lived in this land for generations. The comparison to e.g., France in Algier, is not a fair one here.

Who said I support settlements at all?

May I ask you what you view as Zionism?

I’m an Israeli lefty and this is the first time I see an argument in favor of the settlements that I’m actually agreeing with. Thank you.

I understand from some podcast that the Mona Lisa is famousbecause it was stolen. Before that it was just another painting.

First, as I said before, I’m against the war, against the occupation, and in favor of two states solution (ideally, a democratic one Jewish-palestinian state should exist, but this is not going to happen).

Now, I’m sorry, if you ignore the hostages, and the fact that October 7th happened as an offensive act by Hammas, you are painting only a partial picture.

Hamas had 10m to stop the the offensive by Israel, release the hostages. It was that easy 8 months ago, even 5 month ago. Today, I’m not sure. If you ignore this card in hamas’s hands then you are again, painting a partial picture.

And as I said countless times in this thread, directing our anger at the armed forces, rather than politicians (on both sides) only aggravate the war.

I mean, you have that many hostages, who would not be released without strong military force on Hamas/Gaza. There’s a reason that the soldiers are there. I agree that a deal should be made, should have been made 8months ago, but this is not the soldiers’ fault, but rather the politicians (Bibi and Sinwar). If you break into someone’s house, and take their son away, don’t be surprised if that someone is coming back to get them back, hurting your own kids in the way if your refuse to do so.

The thing is that while Israeli left is openly demanding that the settlers will be punished for their crimes, the world left is giving Hamas “a free pass” to do whatever they want, including holding their own civilians hostages. Same for the IDF, Hamas constantly, and purposely shoots rockets on cities and towns in Israel. Again purposely from within civil location. Should Israel just “accept?” Pay the absurd cost of every iron dome rocket while waiting for Hamas to learn how to outperform it?

This lack of global pressure on Hamas of disarming itself brings down the legitimacy of the claims of the left in Israel. People here can’t and won’t rely on foreign forces to protect the Israeli border. I myself don’t rely on that (technically the UN holds the border between israel and Lebanon and we see how useless this is).

So, again, both parties are absolutely sure that they are protecting their home, they don’t, in effect, but they have no way out of it due to politics and corruption (of both sides’ leaders).

This is a militant group, with actual guns and drones or explosive and uniform (that they don’t always wear), not a bunch of kids with sticks. This either an army or a terror organisation.

Hamas’s new charter (2017l is sort of accepting Israel (I don’t recall the exact wording, but something along the lines of “if all/most Palestinians accept it”). But the 1988 (in particular article 7, but also 28) charter was never cancelled and the 2017 was never officially approved

First paragraph: https://www.reuters.com/article/world/leading-hamas-official-says-no-softened-stance-toward-israel-idUSKBN1862O4/

Do you see any scenario where the IDF can allow itself to truly stop Innocent people? A soldier is being fired at from a school, should the soldier allow himself to get killed in such situation?

And vice versa, considering what you know about setlers in Israel, do you really think that they will not get even more violent in the west bank if they know that their actions has no cost?

And don’t get me wrong, I wish for Hamas to vanish, and I wish for the IDF to kill only militants (even that definition is not clear), just like you. But I don’t see any realistic scenario (considering the human spirit) that this can happen. Not in the current political situation.

Simply reverse the picture of what you said you’ll see we are saying the same thing. From Hammas /Palestinians perspective Israel and the settlements are the same and their agenda is to drive away all Palestinians (and to be fair, some of the MKs here say that openly, even before October 7th). From Israel perspective, Hammas’s declared agenda is to kill Israel/all the Jews (I mean, it is in their charter). From both perspective, there is a good drive to join the army in order to protect their loved ones.

Disclosure: I’m Israeli, I’m anti war and anti occupation. I was drafted more than 20 years ago (it’s sort of mandatory here).

I think you paint it in a too much simple colours. In the war between israel and Gaza now, both armies fight for what they believe is the safety of their home, and in both armies there are high numbers if drafted (by force people). Also, in both sides, there is a level of truth that without the auctions of their army their home will be at risk. So you end up in a situation where there is an army that you don’t fully agree with and you serve in it since the alternative is even worse.

It boils down to the fact that your political leaders are not having your well-being at the top of their priorities. I believe that your discussion with that someone should be about that. Not about do/don’t draft but how to promote a world where there will be no need for drafting.

(I believe that the same goes to Ukrain and Russia war).