lltnskyc
Russia.
Now, I answered your question, would you please be so kind to answer mine now, which is also quite simple?
If there are two men, man A is simply operating a meat grinder while man B kidnaps people from the streets (soon he will start breaking into people’s homes as well), forcefully pushes them into the meat grinder, and watches to make sure they can’t get out of it, he also makes sure nobody leaves the city so that he can continue his game, who do you blame more for deaths of people in the meat grinder?
Oh, gotcha!
Sorry for being confusing, by “posting” I actually meant “commenting”, I don’t really post anything.
You can see all comments in my profile, but I guess due to way lemmy works you can only see all of them if you open it through my home instance? idk, but here’s the link: https://monero.town/u/lltnskyc
Sure, and not just one!
Here is a collection of footage of people being kidnapped from the streets, put into vans and sent to die: https://uadraftmuseum.ch/
Here is a recent news (in ukr, so please use a translator) that now they will be breaking into people’s homes to do the same: https://focus.ua/voennye-novosti/650441-mobilizaciya-po-novomu-voennaya-policiya-smozhet-zahodit-v-zhile-i-voznagrazhdat-za-pomoshch
And a few more links about how people are trying to survive this hell, and how people are dying trying to escape:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/ukraine-urgently-needs-soldiers-but-some-men-are-desperate-not-to-fight/ar-BB1naQUE
https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-russia-war-recruitment/32310040.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66542065
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/15/bribes-and-hiding-at-home-the-ukrainian-men-trying-to-avoid-conscription
On another note, are you Ukrainian by any chance brother?
I am. Although nobody believes that because I don’t praise our glorious Lord and Savior Zelensky.
I really feel for you and I can tell that the draft is reality and not a joke for you if that’s the case.
Thanks man, really appreciate it! It’s rare to hear that on this instance :(
I hope I wasn’t rude
You are perfectly reasonable, I wish the rest of the instance could participate in a civil discussion instead of name-calling and ad hominem.
stay safe
Thanks again man.
I am safe, as I’ve left Ukraine before the war started, so unless other countries start cooperating with Zelensky’s regime and kidnap people from the streets [and send them to Ukraine to die] there is no threat for me.
Unfortunately it’s not true for some of my family members, my friends, and millions of Ukrainians :(
It seems to me you have more of an issue with the concept of the draft
I do have an issue with killing people (because that’s what draft is - you force somebody to go war, where they die) who done you no harm, indeed.
Some people are pacifists and radically opposed to any type of armed conflict
I’m not and I don’t really care about what other people do to each other, as long as both parties consent, they are free to wound, murder, rape and do whatever else to each other - “whatever makes your boat float” or something…
But there are valid arguments for the draft too, so you can’t just write them off by painting Zelenski into some type of tyrannical despot.
Is there something one can’t provide a valid argument for?
For one, slavery is extremely good for the economy, if we enslave all the black people (or anybody else, black is here just to make a point) we can have lots of goods and services for fraction of the cost for example, we will solve the unaffordable housing very quickly and many other problems, wouldn’t you agree?
And yet, I guess, if somebody does that - people will probably argue that that person is a tyrannical despot or something?
Zelensky effectively enslaved the Ukraine, where people are forced to do what he says, can’t leave, and so on, and yet I wrong to say he is a tyrannical despot?
The country is already in the midst of a full fledged war and elections don’t typically occur in time of war.
I am not too well-versed to really argue that point, but quick googling “are elections held during wartime” paints a mixed picture really, and says that at least in case of US it did hold elections during wars.
If your thesis is …
My point is a little bit different than simple “draft is not okay” (although that is definitely included) - people in the west are thinking that by helping the Ukrainian government they are helping Ukrainians to survive, and I am trying to tell people that it is exactly the opposite, and by supporting our government, they are only contributing to more of us dying and suffering (and so, I consider them directly responsible for all the deaths), as simple as that.
I’m having a problem with this narration of “helping”.
If the narration was honest, like “let’s support Zelensky’s regime and supply him with weapons, because we want to harm Russia no matter the cost and no matter how many Ukrainians die” then it’d be a different conversation, but it isn’t.
So, I guess, my point is trying to make people admit that this ^ is the case, and not “but we are helping Ukrainians and you are a russian bot!” 🤷♂️.
Thanks for the advice tho, I suppose you are right that I should be more precise when articulating a position.
Oh you mean the deal where they tried to make their seizure of Crimea legitimate?
This has already happened, and is going to stay that way, whether you or I or anybody else likes it or not…
So it woudn’t have changed anything, except, you know, such a tiny little details as hundreds of thousands of lives.
but actually the opposite is trying to reach out to NK and stabilise relations
That’s just super fucking ironic, considering that Russia never stopped saying that they are open to negotiations (and the very first peace deal was actually they they go back to before-2022-invasion borders) and it is Zelensky who always refuses to negotiate and instead sends more Ukrainians to die.
Right, so basically it’s okay for countries to be authoritarian, it’s okay to slaughter thousands of people and making everybody else live in constant fear, as long as the government aligns itself with the west.
Why would I blame Russia? It’s not Russia, it’s not Putin who is kidnapping people of the streets in Ukraine and sends them to die. It’s Zelensky’s regime.
Very cool and humanitarian and obviously I don’t agree with that. But out of curiosity - can you please explain to me why is North Korea different?
It is also officially still in a state of a war with South Korea. Does it mean Kim Jong Un is suddenly also a hero that leads his country against the enemy? It doesn’t matter that people are trapped there, it doesn’t matter that people may not support him, all the atrocities committed by him do not matter as well, because they are in a war, am I right?
