I think lgbt+ or lgbtq+ is fine. Things got weird at lgbtqia+ then at lgbtqia2s+, it got too long for me. This is the sort of thing that makes even centrists cringe at and republicans make alphabet jokes at.
I agree. At a certain point attempting to be too specific is counterproductive, even if the intent is positive.
Most people I know covered under these labels, including many people very close to me, also think it got silly. The + is there for a reason. Heck, so is the Q.
i never understand why people try to add inclusivity to things that are inclusive.
the pride flag is the rainbow. you know, the thing that’s associated with representing the entire spectrum. adding triangles and circles and extra colors is redundant. you can just say it represents all these things too because it’s the fucking rainbow.
same with lgbtq+. like, q already represents all of it kind of, but ok we also have a + to mean everything else. what’s the point of adding more…
i know it feels like the letters are more important than what’s bundled into the + sign but the answer to that isn’t adding a new letter for every single person, it’s to find a better, more inclusive shorthand that means all of it. as a cishet obviously I’m not going to declare anything unilaterally but personally i think something like GSNC (gender and sexuality non-conforming) would be inclusive of all of it and wouldn’t need expansion.
We had our Amsterdam Pride event earlier this month. Flags were a big issue of contention within the community. Not just whether or not flags like Israel or Palestinian would be welcome, but also regarding the rainbow flag itself.
There’s two schools of thought: the people who see the original rainbow flag as inclusive enough, and the people who want a flag that they feel represents their niche specifically. That one being the ‘Progress’ flag that you’re referring to.
The argument is: by adding more and more of that ‘social awareness’ stuff to it, the overarching message of it gets lost. Basically, people want pride to be about pride and not have it hijacked by other social issues. Which of course leads to animosity with people who do want to protest for social issues.
Personally, I’m a big fan of vexillology and I feel the original flag is still the best, most representative and least devise symbol.
i wish the entire thing got a facelift by someone with at least basic knowledge and interest in graphic design and vexillology. pride flag is the best but it’s mostly because the bar is super low. the individual (gay, lesbian etc) flags are just eyesores imo. terrible color combos. and the progress flag is probably the most egregious.
again i understand people’s concerns with representation but i think we can redefine what is representative of what.
i am also supportive of intersectionality and see why the black and brown was added but i think we’re past the need for it: you can use the original flag to include all of it. it’s a difficult situation because people who are passionate about this will have learned the historical significance of these and might not be easily convinced to rethink how they see the older flags.
as I said I am an outsider, but as an ally and graphic designer i just can’t help but wish for a reimagined set of flags.
Things got weird at lgbtqia+ then at lgbtqia2s+, it got too long for me.
Then I hope it gets even longer. I don’t care about your feelings about letters, I care about queer people feeling included.
Whether or not one or more of LGBT, LGBTQ, LGBTQIA+, LGBTQIA2S+, GSRM etc. are ‘fine’ is not so much the issue as this: are you fine? Are you okay? If you were okay, do you think you would get over Asexual and Two-Spirit people being included? They do exist, after all.
This is the sort of thing that makes even centrists cringe at and republicans make alphabet jokes at.
Explain to me why I care about the opinions of people who purposefully make the world worse. Here’s the deal: I’ll care about the opinions and morality of the majority when all children are fed. Until then, I don’t give a shit.
LGBT was supposed to be all inclusive. Adding all the letters is dumb as fuck.
A problem with extending the acronym to specifically include more edge cases is that it makes the omissions more obvious. Another is that having a bunch of syllables is clunky in speech. “Queer” is pretty inclusive, though many are still uncomfortable with the term as it has been used as a slur. I’ve always been fond of SAGA (Sexuality and Gendered Acceptance) because it covers everything, is memorable and meaningful, and has no baggage. And using preferred labels when they are known, also a fan of that.
A problem with extending the acronym to specifically include more edge cases is that it makes the omissions more obvious.
Good! Then we will think about who we are omitting, and why.
Do you enjoy creating non-existent problems or what? Lol
LGTBQ+ is the way to go, but sure man, enjoy staying angry I guess. That’s so funny too. I know several members of the LGBTQ+ community (my partner is a member ) and even they think LGBTQ+ is the right size, and that adding all the extra letters is ridiculous. I bet you aren’t even a member of their community based on your behavior here. You sound like a virtue signalling clown getting pissed off over something nobody in the community is remotely worried about.
If you ARE a member of the community, you really need to re-evaluate your approach here, because you sound ridiculous. Btw, thats straight from my partners mouth on the subject.
I hadn’t heard a variant “all the gay people I know think LGBT is going too far!!!” for a while. Nice to know bullshit is still popular. I’m not eating any, you can have as much as you want.
I bet you aren’t even a member of their community based on your behavior here. You sound like a virtue signalling clown getting pissed off over something nobody in the community is remotely worried about.
I bet you generate so little self-worth that you have to be rude to strangers to feel like you’re superior to someone.
On one hand that guys a cunt.
On the other I’m bisexual, some sorta genderqueer, and I only l usually leave it at lgbt. Then again I’m not butthurt about the additions I’m just a lazy fuck lol.
Still, that guys a cunt.
I don’t think that person is a cunt.
When speaking, I tend to summarize it as queer. Google says “Queer is an umbrella term for people who are not heterosexual or are not cisgender”, which seems to cover the bulk of what comes up in casual conversation.
It’s one syllable, people get what you mean, and it’s generally non-offensive (unless you try).
The line is at policing other people using long initialisms. Using a short one yourself is fine, telling others not to use long ones is a dick move.
it got too long for me. This is the sort of thing that makes even centrists cringe at and republicans make alphabet jokes at.
You don’t get to claim you’re uncomfortable with inclusion because of how others might react to it, especially since you’re reacting the same exact way as the centrist straw person you’ve created to shift the blame away from yourself and make yourself feel better, does.
YOU are uncomfortable, because YOU don’t want to take 3 extra seconds to be inclusive.
At least have the conviction to be honest with yourself, the rest of us can see right through you.
You don’t get to claim you’re uncomfortable with inclusion because of how others might react to it
- They didn’t
- Yes, one can do that. It’s like feeling uncomfortable about something a kid does because you know how the parents would react. You might not care what the kid does, but you know how it’d make the parents feel, and that causes the feeling of discomfort.
You might not care what the kid does, but you know how it’d make the parents feel…
If someone says “I hate gay people now because the acronym is too long”, THEY ALWAYS HATED GAY PEOPLE.
They quite literally did, and lets just be clear - are you comparing LGBTQIA2s+ people to misbehaving children, and bigots to their long suffering parents we need to feel bad for? Or is it the other way around, and that queer people are somehow responsible for the behaviour of bigots? I honestly don’t know which is worse.
Either way, what you are still saying is: lets not do inclusion, because it’ll make bigots uncomfortable.
OP is clearly more concerned with bigots’ feelings or reaction, than they are with being inclusive of marginalised people. You can do as many mental gymnastics as you like to try and convince them and yourself otherwise, but they, and you in your defence of their bad take, have made your priorities clear - make sure bigots are comfortable, then consider inclusion.
You are the bigots making a big fuss over the “alphabet soup” or whatever, not some imaginary “other” you want to project your shit take on to so you don’t have to admit to having it (sure, others exist, but you are no different to them).
At least have the conviction to be honest with yourself, the rest of us can see right through you.
