Comment by Kecessa@sh.itjust.works on Feelings? Nah

An asshole is an asshole is an asshole, don’t you dare act like it’s not these women’s fault if they have no compassion.

Yes. It is their fault that they’re supporting the patriarchy.

Saying something is the result of patriarchy doesn’t absolve anybody (including women) of the responsibility for fixing it.

It’s not the result of patriarchy, is the result of them being bad people. They would still exist under a matriarchy or in an equal society.

“patriarchy” in this context means something other than you think, I.e. it means a system that upholds gender roles that benefit a (majority male) ruler class, e.g. by encouraging worker class men to go to war for their benefit, worker class women to be caretakers, and so on.

The counterpart to this definition of “patriarchy” is a society with no stratified gender roles, not “matriarchy”.

This is exactly why its such a bad word to use to describe this, it automatically puts people on the defensive and needs to be explained to people that it doesn’t mean what the word means (rule of the fathers).

No, that’s the reactionary propaganda doing that.

Everybody living in this world should be aware that words have context and don’t always literally mean what their parts mean. And even then “patriarchy” is one of the more literal ones: it comes from “pater”/father in the same vein as “paternalistic”, with the same connotation of overbearing-yet-out-of-touch.

So just from word meaning that clearly doesn’t mean all men, and obviously it also doesn’t refer to literal fathers either.

Probably far worse actually.

I never claimed it wasn’t. Shitty people are going to be shitty but they feel comfortable being shitty in the way that they are, in public, because the patriarchy has made that normal. I never excused her behavior, I identified it as being connected to a much broader sociological issue.

Some women would be shit to men and women and fucking anyone and everyone even if we lived in a matriarchy. Just like some men are shit to everyone and some men and women are nice with everyoneat.

Assholes are assholes, that’s it.

I never advocated for a matriarchy. People will continue to be shitty to eachother but the deconstruction of gender based discrimination and violence would benefit us all. In order to do that we must recognize that what holds us back from this is patriarchy.

My point still stands, no matter if there’s discrimination or not, some people will continue being shit to others and pretending they’re shit because of the system we live in is removing all their agency. “It’s ok if you’re a bad person, it’s just because [insert reason that is out of their power].”

I never said it was ok and I never denied their agency

Hey comrade, I am seriously glad that comment like yours are starting to not be accepted anymore.

I somehow agree with you, the patriarchy harms everyone. But it does not help anyone to slap it in the face of men who are suffering, and also I disagree that a faceless concept has more responsibility than the people pushing it forward.

What you’re doing is the mirror of MRAs who pretend feminism means ‘women uber alles.’

You can stop.

Yeah this comment section has not brought me hope. I’ll admit that this may not have been the best place and time for this conversation but it needs to be spoken of, especially to the people who want to hear it least. I need these people to understand that societal issues cannot be solved at an individual level. You cannot simply be angry at a woman for being cold and heartless. This helps no one. The people who perpetuate patriarchal society won’t stop doing it because we get mad at them. They must be confronted about their behavior first and foremost with an understanding of the material conditions that drive them.

Yes, the perpetrators of patriarchy are responsible for its continuity but they do not realize this. They do not recognize the very existence of a patriarchy and this is why the world struggles to fight it. Often the biggest perpetuators of patriarchy are the most harmed by it and they don’t even know. They are as much victims as they are villains. How can we call them responsible on an individual level when patriarchy is the only thing they have ever known?

Where do you draw the line? Where do you stop blaming patriarchy and start blaming the people who have a fucked up sense of right vs wrong?

A man that screams at his wife when he’s angry, that’s patriarchy or that’s on them?

A man that quietly belittles his wife?

A woman that does these things to her husband?

If there’s physical violence I’m sure you won’t repeat your previous message and say that they’re victims as well.

I don’t understand why it cannot be both? Yeah these people are responsible for their actions and should be confronted on it on an individual basis but their actions are also influenced by the society in which they live. We need to confront and discuss that too.

You cannot simply be angry at a woman for being cold and heartless.

Yes, we can. Patriarchy or not, there are some awful people and behaviours being described in these comments. And while the “patriarchy” no doubt plays a role in enabling that, people also need to take ownership of their behaviour.

Incedible how unserious you are

It’s terrible to see. It’s another feature of the patriarchy and toxic masculinity - blaming the victims. It’s why it has been going on for so long.

In a similar vein: Why do women not report rape? This is why. Because even women have been so oppressed by the system that they will even question “if they were asking for it.”

Men =/= the patriarchy. Tell a friend.

Honestly, ‘patriarchy’ is a terrible term that leads to so much confusion. Too many people use it as ‘blame men’ and forget that it’s supposed to be about men being culturally cast as perfect leaders and therefore punished for not meeting those impossible standards.

I have high hopes that the spreading acceptance of transfolk will start to break down the weird gender roles we’ve got, and maybe we can talk about some of this stuff more directly.

Thank you for pointing out this. I hat the term ‘patriarchy’. I can see the people here using this term are trying to make a point. But it seems to me, that the wording ‘patriarchy’ hints towards to that ultimately men are to blame. It is also unnerving that feminism tends to excuse problems that women really have is systemic, while trouble that men have is caused by individually shitty behaviour.

I very much would like a society, where every human regardless of gender is being met with the same empathy.

You know, I hadn’t really thought about the benefit that LGBTQ+ acceptance plays in this.

Of everyone who has been so supportive of me, it’s been my queer and non-binary friends.

I am a straight white male with money. While it upsets me to see women saying stuff like this post, I also know that I am not going to blame the women perpetuating the problem, because they themselves are victims of toxic masculinity and established gender norms.

I have a lot of queer friends (being pansexual myself) and I love the general awareness of mental health at least within my social circle (mainly well educated people throughout their 20s). For example it’s incredibly refreshing not to have to make excuses if you don’t feel like being around people that day, instead just being able to say just that without judgement.

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