Vincent Oriedo, a biotechnology scientist, had just such a question. What lessons have been learned, he asked, from Harris’s defeat in this vital swing county in a crucial battleground state that voted for Joe Biden four years ago, and how are the Democrats applying them?
“They did not answer the question,” he said.
“It tells me that they haven’t learned the lessons and they have their inner state of denial. I’ve been paying careful attention to the influencers within the Democratic party. Their discussions have centred around, ‘If only we messaged better, if only we had a better candidate, if only we did all these superficial things.’ There is really a lack of understanding that they are losing their base, losing constituencies they are taking for granted.”
“We have set ourselves up for generational loss because we keep promoting from within leaders that that do not criticise the moneyed interests. They refuse to take a hard look at what Americans actually believe and meet those needs.”
You’re missing the lesson too, ironically.
The voters didn’t like what the Democrats were offering them, they wanted change, and they wanted it badly enough that they went ahead and ate that dog-turd-and-glass-sandwich.
You’re saying “they shouldn’t have eaten that, the sandwich the Democrats were offering was better.” Okay, well, they did it anyway. So you’re wrong. The Democrats were wrong. They’ve been wrong multiple times now. They’re doing the “Am I so out of touch? No. It’s the voters who are wrong.” Meme.
America’s a democracy. The voters aren’t wrong, as much as you might personally disagree with their choice. If you want a different government you have to offer them one that they’ll vote for. That may require some compromises, but that’s part of democracy.
I hope that they get it this time. This is the second time in recent memory that they’ve made this mistake. Even Biden’s election was closer than it should have been. I really hope that the DNC gets its head out of its ass and cleans house, but articles like this are disheartening.
Don’t deny voters their agency by saying they can’t make wrong choices. They can and did. They made a stupid choice for idiotic reasons, and will get nothing but suffering for it. There are situations in life where feeling deeply and unconditionally ashamed of your own idiocy is the correct course of action, and this is one of them.
Votes can’t be wrong by definition, they are opinions. But if you accepted that you would have to get off your pedestal wouldnt you, and thats no fun. Go ahead and puff up your chest and brag about how obviously stupid so many people are.
Voters have agency. Let’s tell them how they will be voting and do nothing to appeal to them.
If they were too insignificant to listen to, they are too insignificant to blame. Your party lost because your party is shit on purpose.
I voted for Harris and of course Trump is worse, so spare me the only talking point any of you have.
I don’t have a party. Voters had all the information they needed, and they chose poorly.
Don’t deny voters their agency by saying they can’t make wrong choices. They can and did.
Don’t deny Dem leaders their agency by saying they can’t make wrong choices. They can and did.
This is a bad take that I keep seeing.
Yes, the DNC fucked up massively. They should definitely have done more to convince voters.
But the voters who voted Trump/3rd party/abstained because of that are also morons who fucked up massively.
Both things are true. The DNC’s glaring mistakes do not absolve the voters of their agency. The lesson isn’t that the dog-turd sandwich eaters are rational actors, it’s that the DNC needs to take into consideration people being irrational morons if they want to win. But at the end of the day, they’re not the ones eating the sandwich. Voters have their own lesson to learn.
Both things are true.
That’s fine, I wasn’t saying the second thing was false. I wasn’t saying anything about the second thing at all.
The Democrats don’t get to choose what electorate they’re trying to convince. They must convince the American electorate. You can say whatever you want about the electorate but that doesn’t change the Democrats’ one job.
The voters aren’t wrong
That’s certainly something.
I’m perfectly fine criticizing the DNC for screwing up their one job, but that doesn’t erase my disdain for the views screwing up their’s.
And in fact, I think all this focus on criticizing the DNC over the voters, here on lemmy, is counterproductive. It isn’t incorrect, but look around you. Do you think DNC leadership is hanging out here reading these comments? I doubt it. I know for a fact that there are voters here who thought boycotting Harris would accomplish something.
If you’re going to write DNC leadership to lay bare their inadequacies, have at it. But doing that here just reinforces the idea that the voters don’t have their share of the blame. It’s just circle jerking about how everything is the Dem’s fault. The only ones who benefit from that are the Republicans, salivating over the infighting.
the voters aren’t wrong
CITATION NEEDED
Don’t worry though, we won’t have to worry about voters soon, right?
CITATION NEEDED
America is a democracy, is it not? In a democracy the voters decide who leads them. There’s nobody to “overrule” them. If you want to lead them you have to convince them to vote for you, you can’t declare them “wrong” and take power anyway.
Don’t worry though, we won’t have to worry about voters soon, right?
Are you saying that’d be a good thing? That seems to be what you’re suggesting, but this also seems to be sarcasm.
Do you think the voters should be overruled when they vote Republican but not when they vote Democrat?
Direct quote from the orange man: vote for me this one time, and you won’t have to vote any more. But I’m sure you conveniently missed that part of the rage cycle last year and definitely aren’t being obtuse in bad faith.
The voters can make an objectively incorrect decision, that is their prerogative. Doesn’t exonerate them for being mocked, where else would leopards eating faces get its content from?
My concern with statements like this is that I don’t think your considering the impact that misinformation had on this election.
There were massive disinformation campaigns that had sizable effects on the dialogue that people had with their friends and neighbors. I’m worried that we could have actually put someone like Bernie as our nominee and that we still would have lost because of exactly this misinformation.
The Democrat message wasn’t making it to people and I think that it really shows…
The Democrats message was literally “The Cheney’s like us!” and “ithe economy is fine, the GDP has never been higher!” while everyone’s lives are objectivly worse than they were 2 years ago. What messge do you think people wanted to here?
If you want to be completely reductionist, then sure. They were trying to show that Trump was so upsetting that people were crossing party lines to vote Democrat…not that Democrats have becomes so centrist that they attracted right-wingers. And the economy has been great, they’re not wrong. The Democrat platform was also fantastic: $6k child tax credit, $25k first time home buyer assistance, tax reforms replacing the corporate tax rate to 28%< and taxing the rich, capping medication costs, union support, pushing reproductive rights, climate action, immigration reform. They had a STRONG platform.
…but that wasn’t good enough. So they elected the billionaire conman that is putting up his billionaire cronies. That’s going to help the economy. Like…could the Democrat message have been better? Sure, but it wasn’t bad by any means.
But how are you supposed to argue with someone who doesn’t operate on facts?
Disagreeing with something doesnt make it disinformation. What were the big lies being spread about Kamala that affected the voter base? I’m not on social media, the only thing I watched was the live interview she did on fox, and she was rude and deceptive. Is an uncut interview disinformation?
I live in a deep blue state. Family is all very blue. They have learned absolutely nothing. They all think what the Democrats did was perfect. Kamala was flawless. She didn’t get elected because America is racist AND sexist.
They genuinely believe that there was nothing they could have done to improve.
I think they are gonna have to learn this lesson a few more times before they pull their heads outta their ass finally. I hope.
Your family is correct. America is racist and sexist. Asl yourself, after that debate and the several Trump fumbles on the campaign trail. Would you vote for him or Harris? Regardless if you thought she was perfect or not.
If you voted for Trump, you obviously didnt care about policy when every indication points to his being objectively worse. And I’m ready to argue that all day.
No. You’re showing the same fundamental misunderstanding the Democrats do.
If people are hurting, and one candidate says “I see you’re hurting, and I will do XYZ to help you” while another says “We’re all doing fine, nothing will change with me” - it’s no wonder people go with the former! Even if they are lying.
Her fascist border plan, embrace of genocide, and her running mate Liz Cheney were all great in their opinion? Wow. I need to talk to some Dems sometime.
She didn’t get elected because America is racist AND sexist.
This talking point is just so Democrats have an excuse to keep AOC out of the 2028 race in favor of some centrist turd barge.
It won’t happen. Every election in the last 25 years, including midterms, where the democrats tried to play to “moderate republicans”, they got wiped out.
So if Dems are never left enough for you. Wouldn’t that mean they’re moderate. Which means they won in 06, 08, 12, 18, 20 and 22 being “moderate”.
and they keep trying to dislodge “sane” republicans because they’d rather maintain centralized power than risk a grass roots movement distributing power to the masses. dyed in the wool democrats prefer fascism to meaningful reform
The blue bubble is as heard to burst as the red bubble. My mom lives on msnbc. There is not a moment that its not on just like my dad lives on fox. They are completely in their own different worlds made of fiction. Dad thought there was no way Trump could loose to Biden just as my mom thought there was no way Hillary/Harris could loose to Trump. Both had no moment of realisation, no moment of reflection just disbelief that they live in a bubble. Its always someone else’s fault. Dad blamed the Democrats and mom blames the left.
To me it’s obvious that Chomsky was right about manufacturing consent.
Well they don’t even have to decide they wanna eat a shit sandwich- they just have to not be motivated enough to go to the polls and say “I’d like the snot sandwich instead of the shit sandwich, please”. Which is what seems to have happened this election as best I’m aware
A lot of democratic voters weren’t motivated, and didn’t show up. And I agree with the statement made by the person quoted in the post, a huge part of that feels like it’s the democratic party’s complete unwillingness to criticize moneyed interests and figure out how to actually appeal to their constituency, and so they’re loosing people. And now we’re all stuck with that shit sandwich.
