honestly i appreciate you attempting to engage this - truthfully, i find the entire premise of appealing to morality in a war fruitless, and my intentions in making the statement above was to imitate that this is a effect that has been repeated for many generations (whether or not it is true).

ultimately people do things to advance their own goals & stamp out contradictions, not on the basis of morality.

this attempt to say this is moral and that isn’t could go on until the next generation of soldiers is born - and it would be pointless because the narrative accepted will often be the media machine with the biggest wallet until some massive contradiction.

ultimately what are your goals here, what are the perspective of the shoes of the russians and the ukrainians, what is the context etc.

perhaps it’s as simply resolved as the issue of the jupiter missles, or perhaps peace was never going to be a option(from your stance of the “russian imperialists” or my stance that the American west desire to remain a world power).

truthfully i am of the opinion the americans seeks to remain a world power [hence the 800 military bases around the world vs the russians 21], and will take advantage of any conflict to pose as the morally high ground in a “just war”, or proxy war in this case.

i don’t think peace was ever an option, russia most likely sees ukraine as a staging ground for nato as it did in operation Barbarossa, or napoleon, or seeks minerals, or believes the new government is too nationalist for their own taste (why does it have to be one point?)

all that matters is that is a war to extinguish contradictions that pose existential threats, another form of competition for capital.

The Lybian war was started on lies and shattered the country so I don’t care if it was “legal”. Diplomatic routes in Ukraine were tried (e.g. the Minsk Agreements) but broken by Kiev. The Crimean people overwhelmingly supported the annexation.

Libya today is a haven for islamic terrorism and slaver markets. Regardless of the “legality” of the NATO (mostly french and US led) intervention, it threw the entire region in outright chaos, and was enormously damaging to the working class of Lybia, but also of the entire fucking Sahel.

So your answer is to let an aggressor nation just happily steamroll through any country it pleases?

You were happy enough to let Ukraine commit genocide until an ‘aggressor’ stopped it

Every effort needs to make sure Russia leaves Ukraine ASAP

So enlist. They’re out of warm bodies to throw at minefields and artillery kill zones. Instead of being so bloodthirsty with other people’s lives, put yours at risk.

Why do you deserve to live if you want other people to die for your cause? Go die for your own cause. Go die with the rest of your nazi comrades.

They’re kidnapping Ukrainian children and trying to “re-educate” them

Let’s start with a source for this one. I’ve seen nothing akin to the indigenous boarding schools ran by the U.S. and Canada in actual campaigns to destroy a people’s collective identity. What I have seen are reports of children whose parents are not available/alive to take care of them (a fact of any war) and Russia putting them in school and/or up for adoption (something any state would do).

No. You’re not doing it right. You’re supposed to learn what the fuck you’re talking about first. And you didn’t so now you’re having a childish tantrum at people talking back to you.

You think they told you to log off for their benefit and not your own? That’s twice you’ve said something stupid because you didn’t know what was going on around you.

RUSSIA CAN DO NO WRONG!

Projection. Noone from Hexbear has ever said this or will ever say this.

No, just as it would be unable to resist NATO in being turned into a far-right paramilitary-led banana republic if Russia were to suddenly withdraw without any decrease in NATO involvement.

But the beauty of the neat little trick above is that if the working classes of both sides correctly oppose their respective ruling classes’ interests, we can end up with a scenario where both sides lose - objectively the best outcome for the Ukrainian people, as well as everyone else.

The Russian anti-war activists are clearly holding up their end of the bargain. Why are you not holding up yours?

He most likely doesn’t believe Ukraine is able to maintain their territory protected from Russia with NATO’s weapon supply, and for good reason, given how clearly this is demonstrated by the utter failure of the vaunted counter-offensive. The only thing your position is really advocating is the useless deaths of vast numbers of Ukrainians (and Russians, for that matter).

I support both the Vietnamese fighting against the South Vietnam puppet government and the Ukranians in the DPR fighting against the current Ukrainian puppet government, yes (though my support for the latter is more critical since they’re not communists)

It can involve that. But you’re using imperialism to “accuse them of what you’re doing before they can” by flattening all history and context away.

Russia is defending itself from encirclement. Acting like you’re against imperialism rings hollow when you only apply it to an act of resistance to your empire expanding.

Finally one of you libs has learned this