There are two imperialist blocs involved in the conflict, and it doesn’t matter which one of them technically started it.

I’m sorry, but when it involves one imperialist bloc invading a smaller country, then it does matter.

Do you have the same position regarding the Vietnam war, Palestine, Iraq, and Afghanistan? Or do you only support whichever side is not aligned with the US?

The Vietnam War? You mean the one where a rebel faction backed by Russia rose up against a smaller, recently established pro-Western government, and the US came to the defense of that government, because if they lost the enemy would surely keep expanding more and more across the entire region, and all the peace advocates were dismissed as supporting appeasement? That Vietnam war?

Yes, we take a similar position on that as we do to this, do you?

Vietnam was opposing a puppet government imposed by the US.

The Ukrainians opposed a Russian puppet government in 2013.

Do you support both Vietnam and Ukraine?

I support both the Vietnamese fighting against the South Vietnam puppet government and the Ukranians in the DPR fighting against the current Ukrainian puppet government, yes (though my support for the latter is more critical since they’re not communists)

You did not answer my question.

Did you support the Ukrainians rebelling against their government back in 2013. Or do you only support a side if that side happens to oppose the US?

I disagree that the previous government was a puppet government.

My political aims go against the interests of the US, so generally groups that are aligned with my aims oppose and are opposed by the US. I don’t believe in judging every conflict as a disinterested third party with no consideration of past events or present conditions. The US has a long history of installing far-right governments, has an atrocious record of human rights, and violates sovereignty left and right, and that is relevant to who I support.

I do believe in giving critical support to just about anyone who’s willing to disrupt the unipolar world order in which the US has license to act as a rogue state. I want everyone involved in starting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan to face a war crimes tribunal and be shot or hanged, and I support things that bring us closer to that goal. You, on the other hand, want to keep blindly trusting those same people to tell us who our enemies are. The only way to put any check on the US’s rampant militarism and aggression is through a multipolar world order.

I disagree that the previous government was a puppet government.

Of course you do, that’s my point.

Tankies will support whichever government aligns with a power that is not the US. Even if that power is a capitalist oligarchy like Russia.

The US has a long history of installing far-right governments, has an atrocious record of human rights, and violates sovereignty left and right

They do, but the enemy of your enemy is not always your friend.

Specially when you take into account what Russia has done. They have a long history of erasing East European cultures (i.e. Russification), and genocide. So I do not trust them when it comes to Eastern European affairs, and neither do native people from those countries, most of support for Russia in those areas comes from Russian minorities (I wonder how they got there).

Those were violent right-wing militias, not peaceful protestors. Did you support the people rebelling against the US government on January 6th? Because that’s a genuinely analogous position to supporting the Maidan coup.

Ukraine’s parliament had overwhelmingly approved of finalizing the Agreement with the EU, but Russia had put pressure on Ukraine to reject it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan

How is this in any shape or form analogous to the Jan 6th?

I literally said that

Russian anti-war activists have a correct position.

Are you aware that it’s possible to want neither NATO tanks nor Russian tanks in Ukraine?

You can even make sure you are consistent with both things in action 100% of the time - it’s a neat little trick called “opposing the position of your own government”.

Are you aware that it’s possible to want neither NATO tanks nor Russian tanks in Ukraine?

I am.

But do you believe Ukraine is able to maintain their territory protected from Russia without NATO’s weapon supply?

He most likely doesn’t believe Ukraine is able to maintain their territory protected from Russia with NATO’s weapon supply, and for good reason, given how clearly this is demonstrated by the utter failure of the vaunted counter-offensive. The only thing your position is really advocating is the useless deaths of vast numbers of Ukrainians (and Russians, for that matter).

The only thing your position is really advocating is the useless deaths of vast numbers of Ukrainians (and Russians, for that matter). [emphasis mine]

They never admit it, but the fact that Russian deaths will continue is one of if not the main reason these NATO dronies are fine with sacrificing the lives of all those Ukrainians they pretend to care about. Spoiler warning: they don’t actually care about Ukrainians. But they’ll still couch it in terms as if they’re “supporting Ukraine.” Such “Ukraine supporters” are either completely, pathetically fooled by obvious NATO propaganda or they are just bloodthirsty bigots (or both, which is most often the case).

The mere fact that they are in the act of a counter offensive after Russia tried to blitz then shows that it’s not even close to what you’re describing.

Ukraine is holding their current territory pretty easily and gaining the upper hand very clearly.

Russia tried to blitz

The mere fact that you believe this shows how steeped in western propaganda you are

At no point was Russia’s strategy a blitz, this is a lie meant to equate Russia with nazi Germany and Pitin With Hitler even though it’s still celebrating Bandara as a national hero

No Russia’s gameplan from the start has been what it has been for almost 100 years, Soviet tactics not that that coked up nazi blitzkreig bullshit

The attack on Kiev was likely a feint

Ukraine is holding their current territory pretty easily and gaining the upper hand very clearly.

The cope levels are off the charts

Yeah their Blitz was only a fake and their strategy is lose like they do right now.

Cope lmao

The famed counter offensive that western media has now described as incapable because of “ukrainians are too soviet brained” (the racism really did jump out lately), due to it absolutely failing to acheive its stated objectives, and leading to a situation far more reminsicent to WW1 murderous slog, and probably would have been even worse had Ukraine actually applied to a T the nonsense the US and more broadly NATO was telling them to do?

Brother it’s been months and we are talking few kms of wins, it’s longer than the already absolutely ridiculous Russian assault on Bakhmut, for far less.

It’s time to end this shit. A diplomatic resolution is crucial, and in terms of the POV of working class people in the west, we must stop the endless billions sent to maintain a steady flow of ukraiian and russian soldiers to the meat grinder, particularly given our own issues.

No, just as it would be unable to resist NATO in being turned into a far-right paramilitary-led banana republic if Russia were to suddenly withdraw without any decrease in NATO involvement.

But the beauty of the neat little trick above is that if the working classes of both sides correctly oppose their respective ruling classes’ interests, we can end up with a scenario where both sides lose - objectively the best outcome for the Ukrainian people, as well as everyone else.

The Russian anti-war activists are clearly holding up their end of the bargain. Why are you not holding up yours?

Exactly this.

Revolutionary defeatism is the name of the word. Those who should be concerned with Russian imperialism must be russian working class people.

We in the west have to fight against our own imperalists. It’s very simple and in the end very logical.

The Russian anti-war activists are clearly holding up their end of the bargain. Why are you not holding up yours?

Ah! To be young and naive enough to believe that the anti-war activists in Russia have any leverage. They will all end up in Siberia or jumping out of a window.

Any regime change in Russia will come from the oligarchs, and the Russian working class will still be in a bad position (if not worse).

They did quite well in WW1.

Speaking of that, was the Entente was completely justified in sending millions to die in the war? After all, previously you said:

I’m sorry, but when it involves one imperialist bloc invading a smaller country, then it does matter.

Not even one, but two smaller countries! Think of little Belgium and Serbia!

Someone has read Lenin hihi

(Lenin exactly refers to the Belgium question in WW1 in “Socialism and the War”)

To be young and naive enough to believe that the anti-war activists in Russia have any leverage

funny how shitlibs like you will gladly say stuff like this while in the very same breath talking about how russians are all evil orcs for genociding the smol bean ukranians and they need to be wiped out

also the “oh i am so worldly and wise” liberal condescension act is beyond tired. if you’re so old and venerable then just fucking die already, ghoul.

also the “oh i am so worldly and wise” liberal condescension act is beyond tired. if you’re so old and venerable then just fucking die already, ghoul.

😘

The second you call Russia’s actions imperialist you just broadcast that you’re someone who just uses words for their impact and not their meaning and you should be completely disregarded in any conversation on the topic

TIL invading other countries and annexing their territories does not qualify as imperialism.

It can involve that. But you’re using imperialism to “accuse them of what you’re doing before they can” by flattening all history and context away.

Russia is defending itself from encirclement. Acting like you’re against imperialism rings hollow when you only apply it to an act of resistance to your empire expanding.

Encirclement by what? Countries that don’t like to suck off Russia anymore?

Maybe Russia should act less like an authoritarian mafia state and then its neighbours wouln’t turn away from it. Food for thought

Mind palace history. Ukraine turned away from Russia when the west sponsored a coup against the legitimately elected government and the regime they were replaced with was pro-west.

Ukraine is not encircling Russia at all.

Finally one of you libs has learned this

Tankies have a hard time understanding sarcasm, I guess.

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