Lemdro.id

Old twitter screenshot of Mirko Welsch’s account apparently calling for Antifa to be deported to Buchenwald

2 points

1 year ago

I was unable to determine what other interpretations this might have:

“Abschiebung der Antifa nach Buchenwald. Arbeit statt Linksterror.”

Perhaps there is some nuance I have missed, ‘nach’ is a very versatile word even if the rest are very unambiguous.

This factchecker analysis looked even-handed enough for me to be satisfied it was not just my poor German or inaccurate auto-translation.

For the other incidents, I’ll leave you to check the post I initially replied to for names and accuracy checking.

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ParsnipWitch@feddit.de

-1 points

1 year ago

Literally every single one of these quotes where either proven as false or the people are not part of the AFD and/or they were brought to court and judged for it. That’s all on the site of Faktencheck.

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1 point

1 year ago

"Größtenteils richtig. Von den 19 Zitaten sind die meisten richtig oder größtenteils richtig. Bei fünf fehlen Belege, vier weitere wurden leicht verändert oder es fehlt Kontext. "

Are you referring to a different Factchecker than the link i posted? Or are you saying they just left up the page with incorrect information? “Proven as false” doesn’t seem to match this quote from the link I posted.

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ParsnipWitch@feddit.de

0 points

1 year ago

The Link you posted does not match the quotes you claimed have been said. And also you wrote Germany allowed the AFD to say those things, but it is not true.

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1 point

1 year ago

Deleted by creator

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1 point

1 year ago

As I said previously:

For the other incidents, I’ll leave you to check the post I initially replied to for names and accuracy checking.

For the Buchenwald quote, under heading list item 3: Mirko Welsch from the link I provided that you said proved false most of the claims despite it saying they were “mostly accurate”:

auf einen Beitrag der Zeitung Neues Deutschland offenbar folgendermaßen antwortete: „Abschiebung der Antifa nach Buchenwald. Arbeit statt Linksterror.“ Das Zitat „Antifa? Ab ins KZ!“ entspricht also nicht dem Original, der Sinn ist jedoch nicht verändert worden.

Which directly contradicts what you said:

none of this has happened

What I also said:

What I am surprised by is that Germany is allowing politicians to advocate specific Nazi atrocities when there are purportedly laws against glorifying Nazis.

Were there legal consequences for Welsch saying this that I missed? Was there a trial and investigation?

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https://www.queer.de/detail.php?article_id=28385

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ParsnipWitch@feddit.de

0 points

1 year ago

Mirko Welsch is not in the AFD and of course there was a trial.

He is actually trialed regularly and he always changes his targets. Sometimes he insults groups on Facebook who are against (!) the right as antisemites. Then he insults the major of Hamburg as a “Fascist bitch”. And other cases like this.

In your original post you claimed these are all things the AFD does that are allowed in Germany, but it is not true (that’s why I said none of this has happened).

If the AFD would say this they could have easily be banned! That’s even on the website and the links you posted yourself.

Mirko Welsch left the AFD quite some time ago, ironically, claiming that Björn Höcke is a neo fascist. This is a quote from Mirko Welsch why he left:

“So sehr ich für einen konservativ-patriotischen Aufbruch in Deutschland stehe, so sehr lehne ich die Anbiederungen an rechtsextreme und nationalistische Milieus ab.”

(“As much as I stand for a conservative-patriotric awakening in Germany, just as much I oppose the ingradiation towards a right-wing extremist and nationalist milieu.”)

This was around 2017, a few years before the tweet. Which says pretty much everything about these clowns.

The publicity about unimportant people like Welsch, the trials and the way they are thrown out of or leave the AFD with a lot of media attention is a tool to them. This is used by people like Björn Höcke or Alice Weidel to pretend they are centrist. They thrive from the discord in the other parties.

For example they will put “gender” on the agenda on purpose, because they know it will get the others fighting and then they can later pretend in front of their voters that the other parties talk about “unimportant stuff like gender” all the time. They don’t advertise or use Nazi stuff openly, because that’s very complicated in Germany and will easily get you banned or prosecuted.

So they use sneaky tactics to bind actual neo Nazis but also the much bigger group of “centrist” conservatives and right wing people who do not want to associate with Nazis.

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0 points

1 year ago

Link to trial information, please? I don’t speak German well enough to know my way around your court document systems.

Also, as per the same factchecker article, a few sentences up:

Er war Sprecher der Homosexuellen in der AfD.

He was the spokesperson for homosexuals in the AfD. Which is just a wild concept in itself, but whatever, self-haters gonna self-hate.

In your original post you claimed these are all things the AFD does that are allowed in Germany, but it is not true (that’s why I said none of this has happened). If the AFD would say this they could easily be banned. That’s even on the website and the links you posted yourself.

I quoted exactly what I said. I’ll do so again so nobody has to scroll:

What I am surprised by is that Germany is allowing politicians to advocate specific Nazi atrocities when there are purportedly laws against glorifying Nazis.

You said “none of this happened”. In a language I don’t even speak I found third party evidence of someone advocating for Buchenwald, one of the things in the ‘never happened because ot is forbidden’ list. You told me the factchecker link I posted said the opposite. Then when I showed you it didn’t say the opposite, you said it didn’t address the quote at all. Then when I showed you it did, you now say he isn’t in the AfD. As though quitting cancels all your historical membership too.

All of this, after telling me that even though the AfD has Nazis in it, we shouldn’t call them out as Nazis… because:

You give them an easy way out because they will start a discussion about the word or try to push the narrative that only “real Nazis” are the problem.

Much like you have started a discussion about whether Welsch really is AfD, or if Germany really “allowed” him to say it, or if he ever really said it at all, or if the factchecker really addresses it…

No. To your point about not calling people Nazis because they’re assholes, I will continue to call assholes Nazis when they are Nazi assholes who explicitly call for repeating Nazi history, policy and/or beliefs. If they are assholes who do not call for Nazi repeat history, policy, and the same values, I will not call them a Nazi. Because they are just assholes, not Nazis.

If we stop calling Nazis out as Nazi, we choose to run the euphemism treadmill and give legitimacy to those who claim their grotesque conservative ethno-nationalist populism is somehow “different” from Nazis.

It’s not different. I’m not going to wait until the gun is pointing at me and others before I call out the same dangers and patterns that led to the last time Nazis were allowed to enjoy mainstream popularity, and the last time people like me were tortured, raped, enslaved and ultimately killed.

Feel free to believe things aren’t happening because there are rules against those things happening, I won’t be joining you. I assume pre-WW2 had laws against murder too, which didn’t seem to help much.

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