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115 points

I’m struggling with everything on this article. On the one hand anytime a hostage has been freed, that’s good news. On the other, at what cost. 40 000 dead. That’s the easy stat. Amputations are also incredibly high. Most of them kids and performed without anesthetic. This is the first time the IDF has rescued hostages. So I’m sitting here with my initial feeling of ‘oh, that’s good news’ ,and then I think about the wider picture and context, and it doesn’t seem so good anymore.

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38 points

And half a dozen months ago they could have had a ceasefire to have them released, along with the ones that STILL aren’t released.

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28 points

Nah, that was the one that Egypt fucked up. There had not been an actual agreed upon hostage transfer since the first one. Hamas also won’t give actual information on the hostages. This whole thing is just war crimes the whole way down.

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-14 points

“we don’t negotiate with terrorists” and that stance is “non-negotiable.” If only these terrorists would just stop and do what we want.

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17 points

Well from the other side the IDF are the terrorists, since they’re terrorising Gaza indiscriminately.

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8 points

So you think we should negotiate with terrorists? Give them something to make them stop what they’re doing today, and they definitely won’t commit more terrorism later in the hope of getting more things later.

Maybe just stick to eating ass, Adam.

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0 points

I wouldn’t negotiate with Israel either

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4 points

Three months ago the IDF also rescued 3 hostages by killing many civilians. They bomb entire neighbourhoods to rubble as a distraction mechanism for their teams to go in.

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8 points
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They bomb entire neighbourhoods to rubble as a distraction mechanism for their teams to go in.

Those human shields had it coming. /S or I guess they’re human bait now?

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-5 points

Imagine how much resources hamas spent on keeping these hostages and how many lives could be saved if they just released them all before the ground operation was started.

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20 points

Netanyahu said since November that even if all hostages were released he was going to invade anyway and not stop the war.

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-8 points

Even more reason to release them all then, and I’m appalled by how hamas was that stupid to not realize that.

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13 points

Just think about how many lives could have been saved if Israel worked towards a two state solution

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4 points

Just think about how many lives could have been saved if Israel worked towards a two state solution cared about human lives

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-9 points

Yeah. October 7 surely didn’t make them start working on that, did it?

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-37 points

Maybe the Palestinians themselves devalue their own lives compared to Israeli lives. Just look at when they agreed to a ceasefire and traded hostages for prisoners: each hostage was worth multiple prisoners released by Israel.

This is also noticeable when Hamas use their own population as human shields, exemplified by when they hide their soldiers and weapons in hospitals and schools. Or when they blend in with civilians on purpose by not using any combatant uniform like the IDF do. They really don’t care for their own civilians. These are only useful for acting as human shields and, if they’re killed or injured, strike a pose for NatGeo-style photos in their attempts to appeal to western sentiment.

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19 points

Maybe the Palestinians themselves devalue their own lives compared to Israeli lives.

What the fuck

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-4 points
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Removed by mod
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18 points

Maybe the Palestinians themselves devalue their own lives compared to Israeli lives.

You should just stop right there. If your logic depends on saying “they actually don’t value their lives as much as others” then please stop and ask “what the hell is wrong with yourself?”. People who think like this probably value their life least of all. /s

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-13 points
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When I see how easily the Hamas uses their own population as sacrifices, I have doubts they really value their lives. Remember: the Gazan population elected the Hamas with more than 60% of the votes. It’s not too farfetched to say a significant part of the Gazans think like the Hamas in terms of sacrifice, and by extension, how they value their lives.

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13 points

I could be wrong, but I haven’t seen any independent verification that Hamas has been using hospitals and schools for bases, but I’m positive that there’s been debunked Israeli reports that schools and hospitals have been used as Hama’s bases.

Same thing for human shields. IDF admits to using Palestinians as shields. To my knowledge, there’s no Hamas equivalent.

This ‘war’ isn’t about Hamas anyways. If it was, there wouldn’t be 1000 people killed in the west bank. Hamas isn’t in the west bank. Why is the IDF letting people kill Palestinians in the west bank?

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-9 points

Likewise, there’s no independent verification when the Hamas minister of healthcare periodically announces the number of casualties, but the media tends to take it at face value as it was the crystalline truth. When this is most likely an inflated number to keep Israel in the worst light possible, and to exert political pressure for the USA to stop supporting Israel with weapons of war. It’s all with the intent of the Hamas getting away with it.

The Hamas has a history of lying and deception in order to support the narrative in their favor.

There’s the incident of Hamas accusing Israel of bombing an hospital last year, which the media widely reported as truth before checking, but in the end it was in a building a block away from the hospital. Since this embarrassment the media has been more careful before confirming anything coming from Hamas official sources.

Also the Hamas had a guy that multitasked as an News Reporter, Combatant, Healthcare Professional, Bloodied Victim. This was reported in social media, a guy from Hamas appearing in photos doing all those things in different occasions. Give this guy an Oscar already!

The Hamas does not hesitate to manipulate facts to confirm their intended narrative. Their track record is tarnished at this point. But, to be honest, an organization that takes hostages as a leverage to negotiate a ceasefire in a war they themselves started, from this point it was already very clear they’d do anything to achieve their goals. From using civilians as human shields to lying without shame, these things are just the cherry on top of the heinous acts they committed as the catalyst of the war. They were not trustworthy from the start.

And what you say about “IDF using Palestinians as shields” makes no sense. That’s what the Hamas do, actually. The Hamas see their civilians as disposable sacrifice for a religious end. If an IDF soldier took a Palestinians civilian literally as a human shield in order to avoid being shot by a Hamas militant, the militant would shoot both of them without hesitation, because they see their civilians as sacrifices in a religious sense. Just an addendum, the Islamic State leaders used to say “we love death like you love life” as a point of comparison of the radical islamic worldview compared to the western worldview. That’s the kind of thinking that drives the Hamas, and that’s why they’re not ashamed to call for the extermination of all Jews as if it’s the most normal thing in the world.

About the deaths in the West Bank, I’m not too knowledgeable about this to comment further.

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-2 points

Fuck of Nazis scum.

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