There’s a confederate monument with a huge coward’s flag at mile marker 16 on I-24 in West Kentucky. I hate it and wish somebody would do something about it.
I-40 going thru NC around I think Morganton but I may be off on my towns there is a giant traitors flag right on the edge of the Interstate. Largest I have ever seen.
Also if you are ever in SC traveling toward the coast near Hilton Head you will get the luxury of seeing these billboards.
They call it the war of northern aggression. There “ain’t nothing civil about it”.
It’s not like they have round-the-clock security for these places. It’d be pretty easy to just walk in at night and do the deed.
I think we should start an online campaign to have it removed. It’d be real interesting to see who shows up trying to protest its removal.
All nazi/confederate monuments should be taken down.
More confederate monuments were built in 1999 than in 1869. The year with the most confederate monuments built was 1911, 46 years after the end of the war. That’s like as if there were now a sudden spree of building Vietnam War monuments everywhere.
Confederate monuments were overwhelmingly built during the Jim Crow era. The Daughters of the Confederacy built most of them as part of their revisionist lost cause project, trying to write slavery out of the war. Then there was also a lot of them built during the civil rights era, to send a message to civil rights activists.
Sure, it’s worth saving a few of them to put into places like the Jim Crow Museum of Racist Memorabilia, the National Civil Rights Museum, America’s Black Holocaust Museum, or the National Civil War Museum. But there’s many more monuments than appropriate museums for them. Getting rid of the least historically s significant ones isn’t a big issue.
This particular kind of Nazi collaborators is actually all the rage now, since Western public has found THE conflict of our age in Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, immediately conveniently forgetting all other conflicts and genocides going on where every Western power has consistently shat its pants. I’m pleasantly surprised that there is, in fact, outrage at this.
In Russian-speaking (those supposedly liberal) parts of Reddit everybody would be justifying this memorial. Cause most of people you’d consider liberal in Russia and Ukraine are in fact disgusted with Putin etc mostly because of weakness and lack of development and corruption.
Not because of any crimes, plenty of them support ethnic cleansing (say, supporting Russian central government against Chechnya is not cool anymore among them, but for most it was like 10 years ago) and even military aggression (say, Azeri aggression against Artsakh). They just want those things to look cool, and Putin’s empire of decay, theft, incompetence and general despair is not what they’d like to see.
You know, a bit like people from Hungary/Poland/Baltics just love to say that Soviets were “worse than Nazis”, and have that slightly hidden irritation at being reminded that there are Jewish people in the room.
to be fair, the soviets, especially after Stalin took over, were indistinguishable from fascists.
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The cult of tradition. soviet iconography literally everywhere
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The rejection of modernism. modernism is after all the spawn of the western capitalist.
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The cult of action for action’s sake.
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Disagreement is treason. off to the gulags with the dissident.
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Fear of difference. other than them having created some of the most racist groups in Europe…
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Appeal to social frustration.
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The obsession with a plot. fucking anti-revolutionary on every corner!
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The enemy is both strong and weak. just look at the propaganda.
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Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy. second verse, same as the first.
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Contempt for the weak. the modern soviet man.
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Everybody is educated to become a hero. and sacrifice yourself for the revolution
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Machismo and weaponry. have you seen the soviet leaders? or their weaponry on display everywhere?
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Selective populism. literally deporting ethnic groups because they might create a contrary populist opinion.
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Ur-Fascism speaks Newspeak.
I invite you to fill out the remainder 3, 6, 14
Nice to see somebody who likes Eco`s definition, but that’d be circular logic - his Ur-Fascism criteria were a result of optimization based on a selection of axiomatically fascist regimes, Stalin’s explicitly included. (Sorry for this sentence being clumsy)
Also Stalin’s regime became much more fascist in the middle of war and immediately after it. As an attempt to counter the “national liberation” offering of Nazis, with their national legions etc. So all the republics’ anthems are quite pretentious and proud, and Soviet propaganda in the middle of war also turned to nationalism from just revolution and communism and globalism.
About your invitation - well, 3 and 6 are actually not so easy for me. I’d say these were present before Stalin, as in 3 would be basic Bolshevism, and 6 would be basic Marxism. 14 - see my first paragraph, it was (for Orwell) first and foremost inspired by USSR, and while Nazis or Italian fascists also had distinct public language (Klemperer’s Lingua Tertii Imperii comes to mind), they never went as far.
The only thing more surprising than this monument’s existence is the fact that it took thirty years for people to actually notice and start making an issue of it.
I’m not really surprised. The text is Cyrillic, not something most Americans can read, and it says:
1st Ukrainian division
To the warriors for the freedom of Ukraine
Nothing about the SS unit, only the dates 1943-1945 and the shield of the lion and crowns. It’s not explicit.
Also, it’s a monument to Ukrainian soldiers who fought for the German endorsed military of Ukraine, serving with the SS. It’s a more complex story than just celebrating Nazi collaboration, because while they were definitely collaborators with the Nazis, they were doing so because they wanted a free and independent Ukraine and wanted to fight the USSR.
So, they’re recognizing these soldiers because they fought for Ukrainian independence, not because the people supporting Ukrainian independence at the time were the Germans.
They also willingly participated in mass murders of civilian population (Jewish and Polish). By “free and independent” the narrative also stuffs this.
So no, whoever put that there knew very well whom they are celebrating. They are just fine with ethnic cleansing for some perceived benefit of their nation.
Which can be shortened to “a memorial to Nazi collaborators”, which is the title.
This is going to get lost by a lot of people, but thanks for sharing a very informative, yet quick history of it all.
A private citizen with a sledge hammer could solve this in seconds.
In my mind, these things should not be destroyed. They should be moved to a museum, so people don’t forget. Erasing history is a bad idea. We can’t learn otherwise.
Why tf should they be in a museum, it’s ahistorical. It’s not erasing history to remove monuments; never in my life have I ever seen a monument to Hitler, but most people can still give a broad strokes review on why he’s infamous. You don’t need to memorialize something to teach it.
I’ve been to a stunning transport museum in Germany. Incredible restored vehicles from all over the world. Even a Concorde jet. Super cool.
They also have Hitler’s car there. It’s stunning, it’s historical, it happened, and the modern crime would be to hide it away, or destroy it.
Without our past, we can’t learn for our future. Put that kind of stuff in a museum. Have an information display about why it was there. Inform the future generations. Empower them with knowledge.
That’s what holocaust museums are for.
There’s many, many better exhibits there than something like this would be. Pictures of holocaust victims, stories from survivors, artifacts, etc. Auschwitz has a room with tens of thousands of shoes in a heap that had been taken from murdered children.
We shouldn’t forget history, but that doesn’t mean we need to preserve every Nazi memorial and every peice of Nazi propaganda.
There’s a world of difference between destroying a 2000 year old temple, and destroying confederate memorials made in the 60s or Nazi memorials made in the 80s.
For one thing, neoconfederate and neonazi propaganda isn’t rare. There’s not that much historical value to it, either, except to document the neoconfederate and neonazi movements themselves.
And holocaust victims still exist, while I don’t think the same is true of any victims of ancient Iraqi pagan gods.
