Both egoism and altruism are human nature. We are capable of both (for the most part). Currently, we have a socioeconomic system that rewards and encourages primarily the former. Why not try it the other way and see where that brings us?
I’d like to point out the viability of cooperatives to accomplish this. A co-op is defined by the seven Rochdale Principles. Among those is open and voluntary membership, democratic member control, cooperation among cooperatives, and concern for community.
Its a stateless form of socialism that gives workers ownership to the means of production and doesnt have to necessarily negate private ownership. They can simply be incentivized by the state similar to how tax breaks and subsidies currently work or by providing workers the framework for which to purchase a company in the case of failure (like after the 2008 financial crash - when competition, greed, and capitalism failed).
Why would they be incentivized by the state that exists to uphold capitalism? Read state and revolution.
Just what ive decided might be the best, or quickest, path to achievement. Wishful thinking, idealist, idea worth spreading. I see cooperatives as a form of peaceful revolution, but how best to achieve a cooperative economy when so few are aware of what it means? One way, I suppose, is for elected officials to advocate for it. Its hard but not impossible to imagine. I suppose there are multiple steps in between that would make that more tangible, and one of those is awareness. There’s already a lot of us in support of socialist ideas where one of the biggest criticisms is for a planned economy, so why not advocate for a stateless form of socialism that expands, rather than possibly, or arguably, restricts, individual and collective freedoms?
Was Lenin aware of cooperatives when he wrote the state and revolution? Its not a theoretical idea. Its already a proven and successful form of enterprise. Why do some of our representatives advocate for workers unions when their existence goes against capitalist exploitation of workers? Seems totally possible to advocate for worker cooperatives in a similar vein.
I wonder how well a system would work where you get more money, the more you help people/help solve problems (with problems i mean like pollution or something)
It definitely would be nice if that were the case, but i think the best way to incentivice people is to reward them. Better yet make a competition out of it. Just gotta reward actions that benefit other people.
Like let people be millionaire’s but to get there they need to help like ten thousand people or something
I kind of fail to see how a life in which all my basic needs are secured as long as I agree for them to be secured for everyone else, thus freeing me from anxiously giving my life to the futile attempt to crawl above others, is “altruistic”. Working your ass off for nothing but your crude survival and the benefit of a handful of others doesn’t seem very selfish if you put it in this perspective.
In any case, whatever is going on right now - it’s… not good, to say the least. Wanting to fix the problem with the problem is horribly naive.
Anyway, nice meme.
My response is always is it not human nature for many to be violent towards others and yet few would say that’s ok. The answer is simple, humans are fundementally more then their base instincts and desires. If humanity were nothing more then animals then society as we know it would have never formed.
Based response, even though I wouldn’t say I’m a communist, more social democratic
Yeah you realize that Democracy is much larger than the United States of America. Many democracies around the world, which have been historically regarded as stable democracies, don’t have a separate election for their top leader. That’s a pretty American thing. Most democratic top leaders are selected by the ruling party, not the electorate. It’s just assumed that your vote about who is top leader is rolled into your vote for your local representative for that level of government.
The rest of the world looked at that and thought ‘and? What’s the problem? We do that shit all the time and it works out.’ Granted most democratic world leaders don’t have as many powers granted to them as the United States grants their President but still. In a bigger perspective it’s not a big deal.
There is no such thing as human nature only human habit
I’m currently reading a book which argues that “most people, deep down, are actually pretty decent”. It’s really good, highly recommend to anyone. It’s called “Human Kind” by Rutger Bregman
Communism is against human nature.
Along with every social construct that we make including laws and traditions. We make these rules precisely to counter the human nature in an attempt to create a better society, though not all are by intentional design. What is good for an isolated sole single individual is very different for a whole society and a prosperous society benefits individuals to have different opportunities than a lone actor. For example, a society where you aren’t constantly worried about theft allows you to engage in trade more freely and thus able to trade more. The act of limiting personal freedom (nature) to steal, in turn, allowed society to have an increase in ability to trade.
What is closer to human nature is going to be more easily accepted by humans. And free market is closer to nature than communism. That is why it was invented first and what has set place first. If communism is indeed what society as a whole feels is better for society, they will constantly shift towards it. Some may argue similar to Canada or Scandinavian countries. Though I wouldn’t define what they’re shifting to as communism because countries like Sweden, Denmark, etc. score higher than USA in economic freedom index (free market). But, that discussion would go off course from topic of what is true communism which has no end.
Last 2 panels of the OP’s memes refer more greatly to individual actions rather than societal actions. I’m sure certain individuals will help and be charitable. Though as a whole would be obviously less than communism since certain definitions of communism would be a mathematical maximum of reduction of poor due to equalization.
The last two panels refer to structuring society based on the expectation that wealthy people will share, which is basically the trickle down argument.
That interpretation seems more like your own opinion rather than the opinion of those who actually say that. I see little causal relevance between charity and trickle down economics.
You have to think more impartially to understand why these two train of thoughts have little to no intersection. Do you know why these people you’re characterizing are saying “people are generous”? Because like you said, greed is simultaneously said. If you get it, you’ll see it’s not about trickle down.
Additionally the general right wing argument for the structuring society around volunteer charity over forced social care is that volunteer format is enough from the view of the giver, not that they will get enough from the view of the receiver. If that happens to be nothing, they’re saying so be it. If that happens to be a lot, that’s great. The argument is also about having the option to choose where they help rather than a government body choosing it… Though I don’t think individuals could possibly know though to choose well.
I am not making an argument for the right or left. I’m just fixing the polarized viewpoint of the other party.
What I’m saying is that regardless how you frame this, what it comes down in tangible terms is trickle down. The argument is that it’s fine for the wealth to become concentrated with a small minority of the population because they will share it voluntarily. This is demonstrably not the case in practice.
Bro why is it always you when I go on lemmy arguing on a fucking meme page in favor of communism. Get a life man!
(You are mixing economic systems with market systems - as if communism can’t have free markets or that capitalism can’t come up with a law that 99% of the profits must be shared as bonuses to all workers)
How do you know free market is closer to human nature (which isn’t a thing)?
Especially when more than 99% of the time humans lived is socialist communes (ie communism).
(Not to mention most animals live in communistic systems, and none have free-markets.)
And especially when even in free markets vast majority of the people (workers) don’t really participate in it directly.
Also humans with their blood thought and achieved that free market isn’t a thing, that we have governments that regulate at minimum things that just cannot ever work in a free market.
Thats a bit like a mediaeval peasant saying its ‘human nature’ to want feudalism.
And a bit like saying revolutions and socioeconomic system changes arent in human nature.
Even the argument of human greediness isn’t an argument for capitalism - the system decides what you are greedy for (capital in capitalism, land in feudalism, commune (respect) in communism, seashells in seashellsism).
In each -ism you can be greedy.
Complete communism can’t have free market by definition. And complete free market can’t have laws to redistribute profits. That is the definition of these words. The theoretical maximum definition obviously differs from actual application as nothing is applied in a complete sense.
Revolutions and socioeconomic systems aren’t human nature. Along with all your above examples. My entire point is that there is a difference between individual human nature and the societal nature. Your point of human nature wanting feudalism is opposite of my point. I’m stating that EVERY SINGLE social construct you can imagine or think of is not of the individual nature but the societal one, including feudalism. And that less of construct you require is closer to human nature. More construct required is further away from human nature. That is, communism requires greater management by the society than the free market to exist, and thus is further from human nature. You may choose to define “human nature” differently, but this is how I see it.
I don’t think you realise how much effort systems invest into their own existence. I don’t know how to begin to compare that.
Do you equate free market (what market?) with lawlessness?
That is, is robbery part of free market then? Or why not?
Im assuming you mean taxes also arent free market? In which case I wonder why other infrastructure should be. Why would any laws or police be part of the free market?
In the basic sense communism is to share labour profits by default, and there are plenty examples of that in nature. On the other hand I can’t really come up an example of free market - perhaps when they introduced money to monkeys and they immediately used it for sex (but I don’t recall there being much talk about pricing). They did the same when birds and they just communismed it (or remained as communist as before within a certain group I assume, taking moneys just as one of the resources).
What is in human nature is to adapt to circumstances - which includes various systems and infrastructure.
And people adapt quickly to good things as well as to bad things. Shockingly quickly in both cases.
The same with animals.
What is much harder is to go against the system & change it (like the actual system, not just the leaders or vips).
