Has anyone in the communism community ever actually lived under a communist regime? I have and that shit was not good. No matter how nice communism sounds on paper it depends on humans sharing and not being selfish and power hungry, which is a fantasy. Even in a communist society, you’ll have those who will get more than others and will be more “equal”
It’s funny because I’m pretty sure you haven’t lived in a communist country either. So you’re arguing that lack of personal experience invalidates all arguments in favour of communism, but your lack of personal experience living in a communist country somehow doesn’t invalidate your arguments against communism. Yup, perfectly consistent.
You’re weird. You’re one of those weirdos people are talking about I think, going around questioning people’s nationalities and race
The fact that people are downvoting you and saying no no you didn’t actually live through that is fucking crazy
Agreed, but I am sad that they don’t choose to share any of those personal experiences that they claim are vital for understanding communism.
Even if communist revolutions tend to fail for the same reasons most revolutions fail (a need for temporary authoritarian rule followed by fumbling the succession) anything that can help understand how and why something failed is useful.
I summed it up in my response to them, but essentially they have a confused idea of what Communism even means. It’s perfectly possible for them to have grown up in a Communist nation, but 2 points stick out as confused:
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They believe Communism structurally depends on “good people not being selfish” without elaborating, and
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They believe Communism to be about some vague “equality,” despite Marx arguing against said very notion.
Authoritarian central planning sucks…
Workers having shares in companies and or the means of production doesn’t.
The soviet economy was insane(ly good)!
https://youtu.be/Hcl3R-yARX8?si=Z2Us5pkG9a7FBPUw
Well sourced easily digestible video on it.
Lots of Authoritarian one party economies are, Hitler’s, China’s, Ghengis Khan’s, Ancient Rome.
You can really make leaps and bounds with forced labour and a Stalinist regime… But I don’t want to live under such a system, nor would I automatically trust how it’s applied.
Here’s some photos of some gulag laborers digging the White Sea to Baltic canal for some extra bread and meat rations: https://allthatsinteresting.com/white-sea-baltic-canal
Insanely “good” economies are often created from poverty, serfdom, slavery, and forced labour. That’s not how I’d define a “good” economy though.
Authoritarian central planning sucks…
You hate it because it defeated the nazis or…?
No, I dislike all Authoritarian regimes. I dislike single party systems.
We’re discussing systems of the past of course, not possible variations or was a new Socialism moght structure its self.
But the problem is that Capitalism isn’t going down without a fight, and if there’s a fight there will likely be an Authoritarian one party system after, that performs a period of white/red terror, that’s difficult to avoid.
It’s a hard problem for revolutionary forms of Socialism.
Auth left and Auth right have had all of human history and they’ve blown it. Don’t you think it’s time for someone else to give it a go?
"Even when communism is not achieved, communism will not be achieved.’ is probably the most common and basic declaration from people have yet to learn anything about it.
Communism cannot be achieved. It sounds nice but humans suck.
Reminds me of Star Trek. Great vision of the future, but it’ll never happen cause HUMANS SUCK
Let’s make it more interesting. Name a place where communism has taken hold and has worked as intended without a ruling class and without resorting to human rights violations of their citizens
Why don’t you just say where and when you lived under a communist regime?
The downvotes say it all. No one in favour of it here seems able to have an honest discussion.
If you are genuinely unable to see that any political system, no matter how great in theory, doesn’t translate that simply into reality because of human behaviour, then you’ve got some reading and thinking to do.
The attitude towards communism here comes across like a cult. Present facts or a reasonable point of discussion, you get shouted down/strawmanned, othered, etc.
Ironically, the very behaviour that stops things like communism working in reality.
it depends on humans sharing and not being selfish and power hungry, which is a fantasy.
What about Communism depends on this, structurally? How, in any way, does Capitalism do better?
Even in a communist society, you’ll have those who will get more than others and will be more “equal”
Where does Marx say that Communism is about equality?
Of course they haven’t, and while I’m happy to be proved wrong, I’m sure they’re all enjoying the benefits of living in a democratic country while cosplaying communists.
Do you think your bourgeois democracy is actually democratic? If you are for democracy you’d be a socialist.
Philosophical question: Can socialism and capitalism coexist?
Purely hypothetical.
I haven’t stated my position. Yes, I think our democratic processes could be better in many countries.
I also understand the reality that there is no simple 'one system" solution that is just going to miraculously fix everything.
A revolution from the top was always going to be bad. I think people in this forum are hoping for a revolution from the bottom.
If a revolution from the bottom happens, there will still be new leaders appointed from those at the bottom. And will soon become less like the rest of us, and will become just like the old Masters
The BV’s were initially grass roots, along with other communists in Russia at the time, but after Lenin got control the policies all came from above with little to no input from the workers below, and the BV’s became the defacto only party.
Go look up communist countries and strongholds throughout Central and South America in the 70s-90s. Even people here calling me a liar don’t realize that even when a country wasn’t communist, there were regions, villages, etc that were fully controlled by communist forces. They raped little girls and took the boys to force into fighting so that didn’t seem so socialist to me.
And just because the opposition forces led by the west were just as brutal it doesn’t make the guerillas any less culpable
what specific guerillas or strongholds are you referring to? its hard to learn from history without being able to name any dates, places, people, or any details at all. without those things it isnt history its just like a vibe. like you have bad vibes about communism, which youre entitled to i guess. i have a little bit more curiosity than that though. i think that if we arent discussing anything specific, then we arent discussing anything at all.
Which communist country, and when? It’s hard to imagine anyone in any former communist country who was old enough to remember communism, and lived through the 90s, could think communism was worse.
No matter how nice communism sounds on paper it depends on humans sharing and not being selfish and power hungry
Those problems are a million times worse in capitalism where each capitalist is a dictator responsible only to themselves and each politician is responsible only to their capitalist donors.
Fun Fact: Communism is actually an attainable goal within our lifetimes, but people would actually have to be open to confronting their biases against it (including hate for all its supporters)
Actually disagree, at least not higher-stage Communism. Higher stage communism requires pretty much all living generations on Earth to have never known Capitalism, and be so used to living within Socialism that the statist apparatus makes itself redundant and whithers away. This becomes self-perpetuating and stable.
Lower stage communism? Absolutely.
It isn’t simply a matter of “confronting internal biases,” just like you would not place a random modern worker into feudalism and expect them to be capable of tending the fields, producing for subsistence plus surplus to their local feudal lord, and producing all manner of household goods such as clothing, fences, and food, so too can you not thrust the modern proletariat into a higher stage of production without working through the transitional status of Socialism.
Communism is not attainable in our lifetimes as it will require decades upon decades of economic and social development. But we can take the first steps by seizing control of the state from capital and oppressing the actions of capitalists themselves. In other words, by creating socialist (or proto-socialist) states.
If there are communists who think communism can be attained in our lifetimes, I don’t know them. We’re not going to sell people a fantasy, some overnight utopia. Some places are now socialist, and more may become so in our lifetimes. But, as socialist states themselves will tell you, communism has not yet been attained anywhere.
As a commi, I can’t stand this kind of people… Like, is important and (sometimes even fun) to talk about this, but there is a lot more to life…
The first frame is implying that they never really talked before someone pointed out that ‘they’re so quiet’.
anticapitalist views of society in general are eldritch brain horrors that peel back the veil of reality and reveal the utter putrescence of capitalist society in such a way that its horrors are forever unseeable and, for some, almost unbearable, as every single moment which passes bears witness to uncountable instances of preventable suffering through not just exploitation but incredibly callous disregard for the value of human lives, and for communists it’s that x10
I think it is just a mashup of common western communist sentiments.
If you like this kind of thing, Marx on Capital as a Real God is entertaining.
This is basically me. I’m pretty quiet when socialising because I know if I start talking I’ll very soon start trying to set the world to rights.
Food and beer are probably the only safe topics for me.
If I drink hard liquor, the non stop beating of the electoral reform drum is replaced with me raging about the bipartisan war on drugs/police state.
I still drink hard liquor now and then, just in my basement alone. Unfortunately I still can post here about it: https://lemmy.ml/post/19710976/13341382
