Winn always made my skin crawl!
Come on, Pulaski wasn’t that bad. She even had a decent character arc to become likeable. Winn though… yeah we hate her.
Are you saying Winn didn’t have character arc?
She had the biggest arc in startrek and it was masterfully acted…
Yeah, but there was that little moment in between where you almost felt sorry for her, before the ultimate “nah, she is still piece of shit…”
I have nothing against her actress. She played wonderfully. I really loved to hate her character. This overzealous and overtly jealous priest.
The Elders tell me Pulaski was supposed to be “unlikable” but in a gruff, McCoy dammit-i’m-a-doctor kind of way.
But the fact that that wasn’t possible to do (and wouldn’t have worked if it was) apparently didn’t stop them from trying.
The sophomore slump hits everybody.
I think they were trying to build a Pulaski-Data relationship that mirrored the McCoy-Spock relationship, where McCoy would say something shockingly racist like calling Spock a green-blooded hobgoblin, but then Spock would insult him right back and it was all in good fun so it was “okay.” The problem was that Data wasn’t able to give as good as he got, so it came across as Pulaski bullying the sweet autistic kid, which did not work as well as McCoy-Spock.
She even had a decent character arc to become likeable.
Her whole arc was supposed to explore the idea of a kind-of rational and legitimate hatred, then see where it led.
spoiler
Time and again, her bigotry caused new injury to herself and to others. But then this was held in contrast to Ed Mercer’s persistent failed efforts to extend an olive branch to rival alien races who were unable to divest of their own bigotries.
That’s what made the latest season of Orville so fucking good.
spoiler
The whole season is about trying to build a coalition between the liberal Planetary Union and the fascist Chak’tal and ultra-conservative Moclan. But, in the end, their commitment to their own moral compass paves a way for an unexpected alliance with the Kaylon that yields far more fruit than any kind of strategic military compromise with the corrupt governments of the Chak’tal or Moclan.
It wasn’t just that she became likeable. Its that the guiding principles of the Planetary Union usher the crew towards a better galaxy, even when that path isn’t immediately clear from the outset.
While I like your analysis, the comment you’re responding to was referring to Pulaski’s arc, not Charlie’s.
Yeah, but you’re supposed to dislike Winn, she’s the villain. Her acting was perfect for the role.
Personally I absolutely love Winn … because I hate her character so much.
As soon as I see her in an episode I know I’m gonna enjoy it because she’ll leave a lasting memory for me as to why I dislike her so much. Louise Fletcher is such a beautiful actress because she makes you forget you’re watching a TV show and makes you absolutely want to step into an air lock and blast yourself out into the vacuum of space just to leave her presence.
People hated Wesley more than they hated Pulaski.
Hmm, it’s been a while since something reminded me of alt.wesley.crusher.die.die.die
Maybe I’m alone on this, but I found a lot of the story lines with Neelix from Voyager to be hard to watch.
If they’d only stopped making him so damned childish.
Ever seen Avenue5? Spike was what Neelix shoulda been and it’s hilarious.
Hot take: i never understood the whole controversy around him dating an alien with a very short lifespan.
She isnt a child in their society, just a (young) woman. Had she remained with the okampa she would likely have had romantic partners around that same time in her life, possibly children as well. For that matter, as far as I know neelix isn’t interested in her for her age in any way either, so I have a hard time seeing how it is considered creepy or inappropriate. Also, the actress was a normal adult woman, so that wasn’t weird either (I cringe more at the scenes of O’Brien and teen aged Keiko in that one TNG episode, at least they didnt kiss I guess).
I found him more annoying for his petty jealousy and overused mister vulcan interactions (although I generally enjoyed their dynamic).
I have never seen Avenue 5, but as an old Buffy the Vampire Slayer fan I suddenly saw a foul-mouthed English bad boy Neelix in my head and it was hilarious 😂
I found most of Voyager to be too cringy to watch.
It was just such a weird vibe, like they targeted it for kids who liked trek, and ultra-horny neckbeards at the exact same time.
The hormones didn’t come in until seven of nine in the way late seasons. And she’s no different than Troi, except more useful on the ship.
Are you forgetting the leotard stretching scene…? Or almost anything Troi wore in the early seasons?
No, that was bad too.
I mean, s1 and s2 was very cringy too, but they had episodes that were very well written by people other than Roddenberry, and we all tend to blank out trauma in our past.
Voyager? This wasn’t the first trek show in decades, we weren’t dying for want of decent scifi, we had tng, ds9, b5, farscape was coming online, stargate too, and before Voy finished we had The Phantom Menace and the Matrix.
The mid-late 90s were a golden age for media, our standards had increased dramatically particularly for writing.
For TNG I’d say 50% of episodes are either forgettable or near-unwatchable, with a bias towards the early seasons, S3 and S4 are just gold though.
Voyager, I have a few episodes I like (, but many more I can’t watch, the writing is just so uneven.
Btw, I have a warm spot in my heart for Enterprise, I think it got a majorly unfair rap, but the first 2 seasons are similar in their unevenness, though Season 4 is again, just gold.
