Didn’t people make a big deal over jfk running for president because he was Catholic?

I feel like this is inaccurate. What other religions were on hand in the late 1700s? The native religions, of course, but the white guys did not care about that.

Of course there was an emphasis on avoiding dependence on any one organized religion. That was one way of keeping power in the right hands.

And in the 1970s and 1980s, it depends where in the US, but in many places or was and is very common to be Christian. If there is an strong majority, there’s no need to explicitly weaponize because society itself is already pushing your agenda. But that doesn’t mean harm wasn’t caused.

here you go: https://skepticsannotatedbible.com/processlong.php?cid=15&pub=1

There is the story of Sodom, two times in Leviticus, the obvious coverup of Johnathan, the reference in Ezekiel (which according to modern prot studies of the bible is a big freaken deal), two times in Paul’s letters, and a derived part of Matthew.

Homosexuality is attacked more times than all of the diet rules combined.

i did think that but i stand corrected by @Jase@lemmy.world. seems like the founding fathers were actually based (at least on this topic) and it’s just the people who like to speak for them who are corrupting this message.

that said though, there are a lot of calls for religious freedom nowadays that shape up like this: basically, “i should be able to practice my religion and i guess i’ll endure yours because you’re in power, but we’re gonna do something about those unbelievers, right? …right?”

Eh, that’s the church as an institution. I mean religion in the more abstract sense. Political leanings becoming tied to a religious stance has become ridiculous, and has watered down Christianity quite a lot, to the point where even Trump gets to go pray once a year and call himself the Christian vote. It’s also been remarkably divisive, as naturally, a lot of Christians aren’t that, and hot political debates somehow become religious debates.

Tying religion to politics has allowed politics to slowly pull that horse further and further, to the point where “Christianity” now means southern fundamentalism to a lot, maybe even most, people. I think without political influence, we’d be a lot closer today to how Christianity started, and is meant to look.

Well it is, look at Malaysia for example

Edit. Ok you’re being sarcastic lol

The separation of church and state has forced American denominations to compete in a marketplace for souls/money, and they have become ruthlessly efficient corporatized entities, using marketing and business-process management, and exploiting tax advantages and high switching costs.

This is not a product of separation of church and state, but of the atrocious combination of hyper-capitalism and tax exemption for religious organizations.

lmao, so the church and state shouldn’t be separated because the government is inefficient and its inefficiencies should remain to be inflicted upon the church?

that’s… actually kinda based, lol. i do appreciate the objective and the unconventional method to achieve it. however, i think there’s a difference between being a government entity and having control over governance. the latter should never be given to the church, because that’s one hella fast way to surpass all the damage they have managed to do under the american system. for example, while your statements seem accurate for western europe and the nordics (emphasis on “seem”, i don’t live there) but over here in hungary the “christian democratic party” is literally the only party our government is in a coalition with, and they get to pass discriminatory laws basically as fast as they can come up with them. the closest analogy i can give is imagine if all the shit that’s going on in those red states was going on country-wide with no one left to oppose it.

that’s also what europe looked like before the “age of enlightenment”, which is separation of church and state is so important in public consciousness, even if not technically implemented.

still, i do like your idea, and yes, inflicting bureaucracy upon the church would be helpful. maybe it’s not a separation of church and state that we need, but protection of the state from the church’s influence.

Such an interesting statement. I can kind of see what you mean. Would you happen to have more reading material on this topic? It would be very appreciated.

Yeah it is one of the unexpected results. It is an imperfect analogy but Europe Christianity has become a domesticated animal that knows not to cause trouble. American Christianity is a mean badass sewer rat that not only fends for itself but can’t be killed. I really doubt anyone could have predicted this before it happened.

Money is just a vehicle for trade, which is essential for any society.

The Founders were steeped in the Age of Enlightenment. Modern Americans wouldn’t even recognize it as Christianity. Like The Jefferson Bible

… completed in 1820 by cutting and pasting with a razor and glue numerous sections from the New Testament as extractions of the doctrine of Jesus. Jefferson’s condensed composition excludes all miracles by Jesus and most mentions of the supernatural, including sections of the four gospels that contain the Resurrection and most other miracles, and passages that portray Jesus as divine.

You could label their morality puritanical but I think cynicism would also equally apply. If you view humans as naturally greedy and selfish, society needs to codify expected behavior to keep it in check.

I assume you have detailed statistics go back up this claim.

I was thinking about going to some AA meetings, was massively put off though by all the bible thumping rhetoric. I don’t want anything to do with the majority of religions.

Also, I guess that drugs are okay?

I mean… sort of?

From what I understand, they appeal to a ‘higher power’ as a part of the 12 steps. Also, there is Narcotics Anonymous, Overeaters Anonymous, and others. The 12-step program, as flawed as we may see it, actually helps a lot of people so I’m not knocking it.
I’ve also heard you can be very relaxed with the higher power ‘as you understand it’, providing a way in for agnostic/atheistic members. I don’t have all the info, just what I’ve heard unfortunately.

People are stupid.

There will be people browsing the comments who read the article, left feeling angry and powerless. Then you reveal yourself as someone who ascribes to what they see as ‘enemy’, downvoting you is a way to exert some (small) sense of power. Try not to take it personally.

I wish more Christians thought like you.

Yeah, I’m not sure if people thought you agreed with the state…? I guess we generally see “As a Christian, I <insert terrible opinion here>”, so assumptions of that sort are likely, but I’m not sure. I try to do my part to show that we’re not all the Westboro Baptist type, too.