I find it odd that when filling out a form that asked me what my religion is one of the choices is Atheist.

What now? That is the that opposite of religion.

87 points

Atheism is a religion the same way bald is a hair color.

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26 points

I told a religious buddy of mine that atheism is a religion the same way “off” is a TV channel. He struggled to comprehend how that’s even possible lol

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18 points

Thanks; I’m stealing that!

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10 points

Lol

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36 points

Philosophically, that’s true. But I understand putting it in the religion column for the purpose of statistics. And ‘none’ and ‘atheist’ are two different possible answers. You can have no religion but believe very fervently in a god of your own conception.

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22 points

That sounds more like “Other” than “None”.

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7 points

Why? If you worship a god but don’t subscribe to any dogma, accept any scripture or listen to any religious authority, you have no religion. You’re just a theist.

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6 points
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Why? If you worship a god but don’t subscribe to any dogma, accept any scripture or listen to any religious authority, you have no religion. You’re just a theist.

Except atheism is literally a lack of belief in a god or deity. If you believe in some type of deity, you’re not an atheist. by default. Edit: I missread that. Sorry. Too much coffee and not enough sleep can cause halicuinations

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4 points

I suspect Satanists and others on the left hand path would disagree but I agree you’re functionally correct

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4 points

I guess it depends on your definition of religion. To me, it sounds like a personal religion, even if just one person believes in it. There are any number of religions too small to be included in their list, probably, so they should have an “Other” option, and that seems like the best fit for someone who has a personal set of religious beliefs that do not align with a listed religion.

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5 points

I like the idea of putting “none.” I’m gonna start doing that instead of atheist.

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0 points

Wouldn’t that be an agnostic?

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8 points

Wouldn’t what be an agnostic? “None” for religion? No, as I said, you can not adhere to any religion but still have a devout belief in a god.

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2 points

Humans are so complicated

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1 point

No, agnosticism is more about the fact that God cannot be proven or disproven.

As for atheism being a religious choice: that’s exactly what it is, it’s a choice to not believe in any religion.

If you and I met on the street, and I were to ask you what your religion is, how would you answer me?

(My guess is you’d say you are an atheist. Same as that dropdown is asking you what your religion is.)

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6 points

You can really go down a pretty deep rabbit hole here.

Strictly speaking, atheism is the lack of a belief in a god or gods. A-without, theism-belief in god(s)

There are religions out there that don’t have a figure you can easily identify as a god, certain types of Buddhism for example, and so you wouldn’t necessarily be wrong in calling followers of those religions “atheists”

But that’s of course somewhat at odds with how we normally use the term atheism, and them prevent confusion we’d normally refer to these as “non-theistic religions” instead of “atheistic religions”

You can also get into the weeds about what even counts as a god, for example, certain types of taoism/daoism don’t really have any particular god-like figures, but they do have the tao/dao (roughly translating to “path” sort of a natural order the the universe that you should try to be in sync with.) Is the dao a god? It’s certainly not a personal god, something you can pray to and expect to get an answer back from, or that can/will intervene in the universe, it just sort of is and you’re either on the path or you’re not. You could certainly argue that it is a god, if an impersonal one, but it’s definitely not what most people would think of as a god.

You can also have religions that don’t really have anything they’d identify as a “god” but might have other lesser supernatural entities, things like spirits, demons, angels, ghosts, fairies, djinn, etc.

There’s also UFO religions, where aliens are the primary figures and often a lot of their supernatural abilities might be explained away as just very advanced science is centuries beyond our own capabilities.

Going the other direction, you could theoretically have someone who believes that there is some sort of god out there, but makes no attempt to pray to them, worship them, doesn’t take part in any sort of ritual or culture having to do with that belief, and pretty much just acknowledges that the god exists but that its existence has no particular impact on that person’s life or the universe in general. You could very well call that person a non-religious theist. Many deists would fall into this sort of category.

Something I wish got a little more attention in these sorts of discussions is ignosticism/igtheism/theological noncognitivism, which is the camp I put myself into when I’m feeling really nitpicky, and I like to sum up as:

Theism: I believe that there is a god or gods

Atheism: I do not believe that there are any gods

Agnosticism: I’m not sure if there is a god, and maybe we can’t ever know for sure

Ignosticism: What the fuck do you people even mean by “god.” No one has come up with a clear definition yet so this argument is pointless.

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6 points

If you asked me what my religion is, I would answer that you have already pre-supposed that I have one. Even though I would know what you’re actually asking, I would answer that way to bring more popularity to the idea that not having a religion is normal. Yeah I know, I’m fun at parties.

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4 points

I would say I don’t have one. Atheism is not a religion it is a description of a single attribute, lack of belief in any gods. People seem to think it means a lot more than it does.

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4 points

Whenever I’ve been asked I always say no religion

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-5 points

No. Agnostic is not going either way. Atheism is a faith, because you deny the existence of a god without proof, just as theists claim its existence without proof.

Source: I’m an agnostic

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8 points
*

I strongly disagree. Atheism is explicit lack of faith.

For all practical purposes, an atheist thinks that without evidence, it’s safe to assume that there’s no god or gods.

Would you say that you’re genuinely completely agnostic in relation to every single religion that has ever existed, even the joke religions (like the flying spaghetti monster, etc)?

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3 points

This is a misunderstanding of atheism.

This is my view on religion:

I don’t believe in your imaginary friend; but don’t feel special, I don’t believe in anyone else’s imaginary friend either.

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2 points

You’re using the modified definition of “agnostic” that believers favor. We have no reason to accept that.

“Agnostic” literally means “I don’t know.” “Atheist” means “I don’t believe.” I don’t know that gods are real, and I have no reason to believe they do.

No faith required.

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20 points

Atheism is not a religion or worldview.

Atheism is the lack of a belief in a god or God’s.

Many atheists including myself adhere to the statement of simply being unconvinced that there is a God or having no credible evidence to indicate a God’s existence.

Maybe the form we were filling out legitimately needed that information but typically outside of a very specific set of data. I don’t see why any form would ever ask you what your religion or lack of religion might be.

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3 points

In the medical world plenty of religions forbid certain things… like blood transfusions. I can’t really think of other places but I’m sure there are other legitimate use cases.

But I usually just trike out stuff that is irrelevant. If they seem it relevant they can press the issue and explain why.

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Surely atheism is the belief in the lack of a god. Agnosticism is the lack of belief in a god.

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7 points

Sorta, break down the roots of the words. Atheists activly deny that there is are gods (anti-theism), Agnostics (a-gnostic) are those who dont know, are unconvinced or those who simply dont care. If you really want to be pedantic (annoy your religious friends), point out that most theists are also atheists in a sense as they deny all gods, except for their own.

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3 points

Exactly. Lack of belief in gods is not the same as actively denying that there are gods.

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2 points

Atheists activly deny that there is are gods (anti-theism), Agnostics (a-gnostic)

Wild to me that you would put these so close. A-theist, as in “not a theist”, you got it right with gnosticism

The etymology of the word through French, Latin, and to Greek all mean that, too, “godless”, not “against god”

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-8 points

Atheism is, in point if fact, a world view.

There is a world. You have a perspective on that world. The assumptions you make and the things you believe, rational and irrational, are a world view. The concept that there is (or is not) credible evidence that gods, or planets, or whatever fundamental facets of existence, imaginary or otherwise, are either a world view themselves or are deeply rooted in your world view.

Q: does your world include unicorns? A: i don’t know.

The answer stems from having a world view that does not categorically include nor exclude unicorns. But more to the point, when answering questions like:

Q: what is most likely the source of existence? A: <anything you damned well please>

The answer, if actually responding to the question, is a world view, or deeply tied to a world view.

As to forms: forms are often limiting and don’t include information we consider relevant, or do include information we consider irrelevant. So it goes. In any case, they would ask that information precisely because world views provide broad but effective indicators about an individual. Knowing that a large incoming group of hotel guests is Christian, for example, can be a useful metric, because you’ll know that your hotel will make above-average pay-to-watch porn sales that weekend.

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4 points
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It is NOT a world view for the simple, basic, fundamental fact, that not all atheists believe the same thing.

Much, much less congruent than even “Christian”. 'Not Christian" is also not a world view, for the same fucking reason, numpty.

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0 points
*

Then, in conversation regarding atheists, I shall heretofore say “atheistic world view”, rather than calling atheism a world view.

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1 point
*

Just using Google ai. Think before you speak.

world view: a particular philosophy of life or conception of the world. “I have broadened my worldview by experiencing a whole new culture”

Atheism: disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

Atheism is not a worldview in the sense that it is a lack of belief in gods, and does not provide a comprehensive view of the world. However, many atheists tend to have a worldview that includes empiricist, positivist, or materialist beliefs, and a strong belief in science. This worldview is sometimes called “scientism”.

Atheism is the rejection of the idea that gods exist, and is not a belief system that answers other questions about a person’s beliefs. Atheists typically believe that the existence of gods is highly improbable, and that there is no persuasive evidence to support the belief.

Atheism is different from identifying as an atheist. While most atheists hold an atheistic worldview, not all of them do. In fact, only about half of those who hold an atheistic worldview identify as atheists.

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1 point

I did say “or are deeply rooted on a world view.”

world view: a particular philosophy of life or conception of the world. “I have broadened my worldview by experiencing a whole new culture”

Atheism: disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

Disbelief is a conception. By nature of the topic, it’s a conception of the world. If someone were to say “I don’t believe in black holes,” that is by nature a conception of the world. One might reference it as merely an aspect of the world view, but it’s still an atheistic (or theistic, or black-holist or anti blackholist) world view.

An atheistic world view doesn’t mean atheism is what the world view is about, it means that by nature, the view excludes gods. Most people, for example, adhere to a non-unicornist world view.

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14 points

Atheist is tangential to religion, you have religious theists or atheists as religion is about a system of philosophy and ethics while theism is about belief in gods.

Irreligious, ‘none’ or ‘does not apply’ might be better.

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12 points

I appreciate the surveys that just say “doesn’t apply”.

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11 points

Atheist is not a statement about your religion at all. I’m also an atheist and my ‘religion’ is basically secular humanist. Yours could be none, Unitarian Universalist, Buddhist, secular humanist, or any others that are compatible.

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11 points

I don’t intend this to be harsh or negative but I don’t know how to phrase this nicely;

Secular Humanism is a philosophy, not a religion. Religions are faith-based while philosophies are based in some logical argumentation. The muddling of religion with philosophy linguistically serves only to tarnish philosophy and lend undue credence to religion. That language is so flexible can be beneficial but it can equally be detrimental when used like this.

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2 points

In Iceland the beurocratic term for religion is “life opinion association”. You can give your tax money to the secular humanist guys that do marriage ceremonies etc.

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0 points
  1. I put religion in quotes to try to appease this take.
  2. You are being exceedingly literal and selective in your definition of religion.
  3. Ceding all rights to the word ‘religion’ to the xtian fundamentalists is not a good strategy.
  4. Your extreme position limits your ability to bridge with others which also limits your ability to affect change.
  5. I’ve had my ‘militant atheist’ phase and shared your inflexibility in the past. It wasn’t healthy for me and it wasn’t helpful for anyone.
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9 points

I don’t think there is anything “militant atheist” in the post you replied to.

I also consider myself a secular humanist, but would never describe myself as religious.

I think that normalising not having a religion would help to bring tolerance for people who have differing opinions, while calling secular humanist a religious view may reinforce a bias in some people that “you can’t be good without religion”.

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8 points
  • Thanks.
  • The differentiation I used wasn’t my own words, I got it from here, I figured I shouldn’t go off just my own take. I suppose I should have specified that from the beginning.
  • I suppose there’s a case to be made for that.
  • I don’t see how you’ve got that I have an extreme position from ‘Religions are faith-based while philosophies are based in some logical argumentation.’
  • Noted. I suppose I could try to find something not abhorrent about faith. I’ve long since stopped being angry about it but I’m still very much an Antitheist.
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5 points

Wow, I just read about secular humanism, and it seems to be pretty much exactly how I feel about things. The human race could, through science, understanding, and cooperation, solve most of the problems that we are faced with. I like that.

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1 point

I never thought of that; that’s interesting.

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