One of the admins at lemmy.blahaj.zone asked us to purge a community and all of its users because they thought it was full of child sexual abuse material, aka CSAM, fka kiddy porn. We assured them that we had checked this comm thoroughly and we were satisfied that all of the models on it were of age.

The admin then demanded we purge the comm because they mistook it for CSAM, and claimed that the entire point of the community was to make people think it was CSAM. We vehemently disagreed that that was in fact the point of the community, but they decided to defederate from us anyway. That is of course their choice, but we will not purge our communities or users because someone else makes a mistake of fact, and then lays the responsibility for their mistake at our feet.

If someone made a community intended to fool people into thinking it was kiddy porn, that would be a real problem. If someone of age goes online and pretends – not roleplays, but pretends with intent to deceive – to be a child and makes porn, that is a real problem. Nobody here is doing that.

One of the reasons we run our instance the way that we do is that we want it to be inclusive. We don’t body shame, and we believe that all adults have a right to sexual expression. That means no adult on our instance is too thin, fat, bald, masculine, old, young, cis, gay, etc., to be sexy, and that includes adults that look younger than some people think they should. Everyone has a right to lust and to be lusted after. There’s no way to draw a line that says “you can’t like adult people that look like X” without crossing a line that we will not cross.

EDIT: OK, closing this post to new comments. Everything that needs saying has been said. Link to my convo with the blahaj admin here.

125 points

Discourse like this sucks. Of course they are free to defederate but presenting this server as a place that allows abusive material is a gross misrepresentation.

I’m assuming the post in question was the one of imcherryblossom. Two seconds of Googling shows that they are a OnlyFans/Fansly model and proves they are above age, and she pretty clearly looks it too imo.

Equating that post with essentially abuse doesn’t sit right with me. Especially when this server has done a good job imo of banning even borderline content while mod tools improve.

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45 points

like, damn, let petite people exist and be sexy ;-;

kudos to the admins/mods here as they’ve been absolutely fantastic when I have issues

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109 points

@MikeyMongol

After reading your post over at lemmynsfw, it’s pretty clear they were looking for a rationale to defederate and would have done that no matter what you did to prevent it.

You made the right choice if with an unfortunate outcome.

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61 points

I don’t know if that’s true. I mean, maybe? Or maybe they just don’t want to see certain things and if so, that’s their prerogative. Some people may call this a platitude, but I truly think that’s the beauty of the Fediverse – diverse views, diverse approaches, diverse comfort levels.

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34 points

@MikeyMongol

It’s their server. Their choice. Thanks for your hard work!

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18 points

FYI, when you’re replying to someone you don’t need to @ them. You only need to when you’re not directly replying to them.

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90 points

you’d think a trans instance would understand that small bodies/tits don’t mean child porn

should they ban us trans girls with smaller goods because we’re just starting on HRT or aren’t at all???

???

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108 points

I’ll take “discussions I won’t get into with a transwoman unless I know her incredibly well and probably not even then” for $1000, Alex.

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40 points

LOL valid

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11 points

Ditto, well put, thanks.

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23 points

I really don’t see how being a trans community qualifies one to judge adult content. I think their objection, incorrect as it was, was based on overall aesthetics and framing, not just cup size. Apparently pearl-clutching is universal.

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1 point

wat

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9 points

A Buddhist temple.

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78 points
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Removed by mod
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39 points

have they defined “big titties”?

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56 points

“I’ll know 'em when I see em.”

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24 points

Not authoritarian at all.

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4 points

Bang! Bang! Bang!

“Open up for your federally mandated titty check! Those looking for a young-presenting titty exception line up with completed forms!”

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23 points

That’s insane

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19 points

Wait, ok I need a link to the law or an article about it. That sounds too ridiculous to be true

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29 points

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_pornography_laws_in_Australia

Just read some of that shit. Hentai cartoons and some 19th century writing.

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20 points
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Removed by mod
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22 points
Deleted by creator
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4 points

That’s insaaaaane. I mean, the US is too, but in a different way. A cups and squirting both being banned is wild

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75 points
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As requested, the correspondence between me and the blahaj admin, posted with her permission. It started with this message (her* original message is on the bottom, my reply is on top):

  • I had used “they” for Ada earlier, which was mistaken. My apologies.
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74 points

Okay… so it was adorableporn.

They are clearly wrong. Glad to have that settled.

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26 points

Right? I don’t think they know how long that community has been a thing. I remember it for at least most of the time I was on reddit too…which was just over 10 years so it’s been around for a hot minute.

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41 points
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At this point Ada apparently had some communication with @gavi@lemmynsfw.com on Matrix, to which I was not privy. He told me, and I said that I had responded to Ada via Lemmy message. He had to step away, so I took over correspondence with Ada via Matrix.

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89 points

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65 points

Huge respect for the professionalism you’ve shown through this situation and in the way you run your instance. The quality of the content here is already impressive, and it’s been the thing that’s allowed me to cut my last cord with Reddit. Cheers.

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61 points

That exchange is absolutely bonkers. I’m sorry but I have far less respect for Ada after reading that text exchange. Glad I don’t use that instance.

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Well, I’m not familiar with who Ada is before this, but it honestly just sounds like she it’s taking a very hard gut-felt position on simulated child porn, and explicitly refusing to consider the problematic implications of her gut feeling. Consenting adults of any body type can and should be able to be “adorable” as a kink or non-kink nudity or other expression. Even if I completely understand the need to heavily dissuade CSAM, that sub just doesn’t fit that.

It looks like the turn in the conversation was the use of “mistake.” It was accurate but clearly triggered Ada and she stopped listening at that point. I’m sure she is a good person worthy of respect, but she’s in the wrong and I hope she reconsiders.

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46 points

Echoing the statements elsewhere here, you handled yourself very well, and it’s quite a different primary source representation from what was being described on their announcement post of why they were defederating.

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42 points

Wow that was all something… Anyways sorry you have to moderate all this. Thanks for the transparency it clears up the misunderstanding(?) for me.

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29 points
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You had handled this as perfectly and professionally as one could.

It is unfortunate that she could not accept your reasoning and still chose to defederate.

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25 points

I think your goof was the “I can’t be held accountable for your mistake of fact”. I believe they’re clearly the one in the wrong regardless though.

It sucks but it is what it is.

I think it’s been an interesting debate. You both make good points. Ads about how “it’s similar to Loli in that it is trying to look underaged” and you with “we don’t discriminate against youthful looking adults”.

I guess I see it like DDLG kinks. I find it gross. I can see why people would want to ban it because they say they’re pretending to do something illegal like CSAM, but a lot of links pretend to do something illegal. BDSM pretends to tie people up and torture them but people don’t look at it and say “hey, you’re intentionally trying to look like you’re torturing people against their wills”.

People seem to have a gut reaction to illegal things with children moreso than illegal things with adults and I guess that’s why some people have this reaction to wanting to “purge” communities like that as opposed to ones that do things like CNC, BDSM, etc. But hey, as long as everyone involved is an adult and consenting that’s totally fine.

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14 points
Deleted by creator
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5 points

This needs to be pinned in its own thread so people can read it.

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1 point
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Deleted by creator
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-9 points
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Why do those images stay the same small, almost unreadable (to my eyes) size no matter how far I zoom in?

As far as the back and forth, to be honest both sides are right after browsing that community.

I took a quick glance at the community in question, and while theres a lot of people who are clearly adults and being adorable… they shouldnt be prevented or banned for being adorable adults making porn… But there was also, just from my quick glance, several posts that leaned super heavily into looking underage and look barely a day over 14. . and I don’t care how much you say they are verified and over 18, The people coming here looking at those pics arent thinking that. All they are thinking is they found a pedo safe haven.

and that makes my skin crawl.

And posts like that should fall under the same forbidden purview as Loli content, for the exact same reasons.

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3 points

Can I ask what the stance is for adults intentionally acting as if the were underage regardless of what they look like? Perhaps that could be a line they could agree with?

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