Summary
College enrollment among 18-year-old freshmen fell 5% this fall, with declines most severe at public and private non-profit four-year colleges.
Experts attribute the drop to factors including declining birth rates, high tuition costs, FAFSA delays, and uncertainty over student loan relief after Supreme Court rulings against forgiveness plans.
Economic pressures, such as the need to work, also deter students.
Despite declining enrollment, applications have risen, particularly among low- and middle-income students, underscoring interest in higher education. Experts urge addressing affordability and accessibility to reverse this trend.
We don’t need lots of educated people to make products anyway. Mostly just need one engineer to design something, then a bunch to industrialize it and then a mass of people to man/woman the industrialized system that makes the part…ordering, configuration management, incoming inspection, part distribution, manufacturing (assembly work), packaging, shipping, etc, etc. 1 engineer at the top makes a shit ton of people or can make a shit ton of people have a job. So don’t need a lot of engineers. But it sure would be nice if you had lots of engineers working together. That’s best for having airplanes whose doors don’t pop open via the DFMEA process and other such design tools.
The purpose of education isn’t production. The purpose of education is to learn.
A thing that upset me when I went to college (15ys ago) was all the fluff electives I had to take. More than half of my classes were not associated with my major. I was looking into getting a masters a few years ago and one of the requirements was American History, again! I learned all of American history in elementary school, and all of it again in middle school, and all of it again in high school and again for my bachelors and I need to do it again for a Masters? Add along more sciences and math classes for an art related major. While I understand in building well rounded students, a lot of it seemed like it was meant to just beef up the number of classes I needed to pay for.
The number of electives needed was also enough where you only had two options.
- Keep your part time job and take additional winter, summer or night clases and pay extra to get them in.
- Have no job and fill your whole schedule with classes (each class was 3hrs long)
Electives requirements for a masters is bonkers. I was trying to do one in ed and one school I talked to was really picky about what they’d give me credit for (like I needed a Shakespeare class and my undergrad tragedy class didn’t count even though we read a bunch of Shakespeare in it). After everything they said I’d basically need 3 years for it. I said thanks but no thanks and went and found a school with a 1 year masters program haha
As someone who has a STEM degree and works in a STEM field, I have the exact opposite opinion. I did not know my major for ~2 years (though I was leaning in a direction), so I took a number of courses that I otherwise would not have needed. And I am SO FUCKING GLAD that I did as I now have an actual well-rounded education. I truly don’t even think you are aware of what you’ve missed out on.
Interacting with engineers on a daily basis, it is immediately obvious to me just how damaging it is to silo education so much. These people are incapable of thinking critically about anything outside their very specific area of expertise.
Good luck trying to discuss politics with an engineer.
I now have additional student loan debt that I would not have otherwise had. But it was 100% worth it. The most useful courses that I took were completely unrelated to the degree I ended up getting.
How much do those extra classes cost and why is it the responsibility of the a job certificate program to have those? Those extra classes could be taken at your leisure after you have a job.
Good luck trying to discuss politics with an engineer.
I have never had a problem finding a stem major with political opinions. Most far more radical then what you’d be comfortable.
What you’re describing sounds like a liberal arts school. That’s kind of the point, at least for undergrad.
Not OP, but no actually. My degree is an ABET accredited B.S. and I had to take about a years worth of classes (over the course of the four years) that had nothing to do with my degree (e.g. psychology, sociology, philosophy, etc.) Their “rational” was that it was to make students more well rounded human beings and members of society.
While I appreciate the sentiment in theory, I have to disagree with it in practice. For people like me that find those topics interesting already it seemed like a waist of time and money. While I did learn some new concepts it’s mostly stuff I had already learned in my free time or would have come across sooner than later. For most of the other people (who tend to be uncurious outside of their specific niche skill set or interests) most of the information and lessons end up being lost on them as it doesn’t really stick.
I’m sure they were some people it was beneficial for, but I doubt it was the majority.
Then again I’m not sure my view of the college experience was very typical. I was basically taking care of myself in some capacity by middle school and got a full time job during highschool in IT after my junior year via the trade program. I was living on my own and working full time while going to school full time. I’d go from work where the next youngest coworker was 10 years older than I was and people twice my age respected my opinion and person to classes where I was treated like an irresponsible child.
However, I would then over hear or observe other students taking about how surprised they were by various aspects of living away from home or “being an adult” and I couldn’t help but just think “… yeah that shouldn’t be surprising, are you dumb?” (never said out loud or to them, I knew I was in the minority with my experience, but it was surprising).
Electives are pretty commonplace and definitely not restricted to liberal arts, even for STEM undergrads.
My buddy with a computer science took water color and film classes. Issue is more bring forced to do it rather then take more relevant classes.
The purpose of a system is what it does.
Higher ed as currently constituted keeps young troublemakers distracted during their wild years and then burdens them with long term debt obligations.
Before we began recognizing the humanity of women (and their usefulness in the labor force), the preferred method of social enslavement was early child birth. Student debt seems to be a good replacement as a social control mechanism.
Not sure why you’re being downvoted. I’d read a study for this if there was one published.
That’s the point if the saying I started my comment with.
There is no written policy stating that student debt will be used as a tool of social control. That’s the ‘quiet part’.
However there are numerous data sources showing the impact of student debt on people’s choices. Such as https://clp.law.harvard.edu/knowledge-hub/magazine/issues/student-debt/debt-takes-a-toll/
The meaning of the saying is that it doesn’t matter one bit what you SAY the system is for, stop instead and look at what outcomes are actually produced.
A common example is when the drumbeat starts for a new war, we hear through media that the purpose is to bring freedom or somesuch. It only takes a little scrutiny to discover that a small number of people stand to make a lot of money off the war.
Add to that, corporations don’t want educated workers. They want indebted workers who are desperate.
As an employer who hires folks in the data science field, I’ve become more disappointed in recent college graduate job-readiness every year for the last decade. At this point I’d prefer a resume to say “watched 100 hours of YouTube videos about data science” over a masters in the field.
And these poor people have 100k in student loan debt with no marketable job skills and are competing against 10s of thousands of other recent grads with no marketable job skills and college has created a lose-lose environment.
No wonder enrollment is dropping, the cost of the education is absolutely not worth it and people are starting to see it.
All of my best hires for SE and related positions have been drop outs or self-taught folks. Sometimes there were minor gaps in knowledge of some of the fundamentals, leading to some wheel-inventing but on balance they were far more capable than the average Comp Sci graduate.
The worst hires, almost without exception, were those with graduate degrees. All hat no cattle.
When I interview new grads, I’m not concerned about detailed knowledge of certain technologies. I’m trying to figure out how quickly they can learn. My favorite question is to ask “what was the hardest bug you’ve ever had to solve?”.
Yep. “What’s the most interesting project you’ve been a part of” is my favorite. Same vane, opened the door to so many follow ups.
So often it’s “how do you translate temporal data for a random forest model” and then see run headlights as I have to explain the word temporal and then how feature selection for machine learning actually works.
They are literally only taught the Python code now, with no explanation of why, how, or when certain tools are appropriate. Real “Bang on a nail with a screwdriver long enough” level education.
Concerning? To whom? The people who profit massively off of students, many of which are going deep into debt?
I would say it is concerning for the future of America maybe?
I dunno, just a wild guess.
Personally, I think the fact that people believe they need to go to college as a prerequisite to success is part of the problem.
An individual person does not need to go to college to be successful, no.
A nation of people will want a certain % of its population to be at least college educated for a myriad of reasons that I don’t think I need to explain here (including to be successful).
When we see a trend of that % decreasing, it makes sense to take notice.
I honestly think college is mostly a cultural staple for middle income families at this point. It’s four years of “discovering yourself” and postponing adulthood.
The benefits of a college education are pretty difficult to quantify, unless your intended career requires undergrad.
However, building a career from 0 is pretty painful, and I don’t think most people would have the stomach for it.
