one thing most any leftist will say about china despite supporting the country is that they’re a very traditionalist culture, and so LGBTQ issues in particular are a blight on leftist westerner’s otherwise positive view of china.
upon scrolling thru rednote, i think that’s bullshit now. i really don’t think you’re worse off being LGBTQ in china than you are in america. yeah, you can’t get married, but that right is under constant threat of being taken away in the US anyway and let’s be real- it probably will be taken away. meanwhile, china is making progress on that front, the US wants to regress.
i saw multiple LGBTQ people on rednote. i saw a lesbian couple, one of the girls even said “LGBT is completely normal in china now, especially in the cities. even the older generations who might not accept it mind their own business”. can that be said about america? how many queer people here have been accosted by some boomer who couldn’t mind their own business? i saw the gayest fucking dude i’ve ever seen in my life (that’s a compliment). he was also wearing makeup and sassily singing along with destiny’s child. completely comfortable in his skin and with his identity, and while all of the comments and his speaking were in mandarin that i couldn’t understand, you can tell by the vibe it was all positive. meanwhile in progressive america, if you’re a guy who wants to put on makeup and go live on tiktok you’re gonna face all sorts of homophobia and bigotry.
one of the few things western liberals could really say about china, that even those of us who are left wing and pro china thought to be at least somewhat true, appears to just straight up not be true.
I saw an independent poll from China once that I wished I’d saved which highlighted the nuance of the issue and the bullshit nature of polls. So grain of salt, this is my rough memory.
It had a question like “what is your opinion on homosexuality?” Slim majority negative
“What is your opinion of homosexuality in people you don’t know” overwhelmingly answered “none of my business”
“Would you be happy if your child was homosexual?” Large majority no.
But here’s the kicker there was a question “would you prefer your child be single, childless and heterosexual or married, have children and homosexual?” Overwhelmingly the latter option.
Like even if there’s homophobia it has different material roots and manifestations than it does in the west.
i can confirm this, i know a trans woman who was pressured into getting with a cis lesbian by family so they could have kids. they didnt care that it looked gay they just wanted kids, and the assumption with most gay relationships is there will be no children. many families dont even care if theyre adopted its all about growing the family for their very frequent gatherings. lesbian relationships are generally more accepted because of things like IVF and sperm donors.
also the secret to finding trans women on most chinese social media is to search for the fishcake swirl emoji https://emojipedia.org/fish-cake-with-swirl
also the secret to finding trans women on most chinese social media is to search for the fishcake swirl emoji https://emojipedia.org/fish-cake-with-swirl
Ah, I see the trans Debian user stereotype transcends borders and languages.
But here’s the kicker there was a question “would you prefer your child be single, childless and heterosexual or married, have children and homosexual?” Overwhelmingly the latter option.
Chinese homophobia is rooted in the gay couple not being able to sire children. It isn’t similar to Abrahamic homophobia at all. They easily chose the second option because to be childless is to be an outcast while to have children is to be a full member of Chinese society. They probably would choose the second option even if their kid is married but the couple has undergone sterilization because they don’t want kids.
For the married part, did they mean “in a heterosexual marriage but homosexual “? Since from my understanding homosexual marriages aren’t legal in China?
I remember when my chinese language partner sent me a little text she wrote in English about her home city Chengdu. There was a line in there about the city’s culture where she said that in Chengdu, “you will often see homosexuals holding hands!”
She 100% meant this as a positive thing btw, she’s a total sweetheart.
Chengdu has a (positive) reputation of being China’s most queer-friendly city, I guess she was drawing attention to that?
Folks look at this, the homosexuals are walking down the streets of Chengdu in the middle of the night holding hands, look at them they feel so safe, tremendously safe. What does that leave them? Serenity.
There’s an excellent Trump impersonator on there that’s doing Mandarin lessons and lifestyle content, speaking Mandarin in the Trump accent.
in Chengdu, “you will often see homosexuals holding hands!”
Haha, that’s cute.
The phrasing reminds me of visiting my now-wife in the tier-3 city in the midwestern US where she lived at the time — apparently you would not often see homosexuals holding hands there, as evidenced by this other queer girl who got so excited to see us holding hands that she yelled “equality!!!” at us as we walked past holding hands, then seemed super embarrassed about the outburst and sheepishly added “me too” and gave us a thumbs up. Wholesome and memorable tbh
XHS is a platform dominated by young urban liberal women and isn’t going to be particularly representative of Chinese society as a whole.
Like I don’t think it’s showing lies or anything, queer people can and do live safely and openly in China’s cities, but the app might not show realities of rural conservatism, or the fact that homophobia is still very common within family units if not in broader society. Just something to be aware of.
i get your point but this random 45 year old man married to a muslim woman also has a different perspective
While there’s no gay marriage, China does have civil unions. Which gives gay people equal rights in the eyes of the law. It was China’s way to placate both sides. The conservatives and the liberals. Imagine, a country that works with and negotiates with its citizens to try to improve the outcome for everyone. Crazy right?
I think it’s worth pointing out that the same critiques that American LGBT advocates levied at civil unions in the states (which were common pre-Obergfell) are applicable to China. Namely that it’s still a pointless othering and that the goal should be full equality.
The problem with your argument is when China tries to stop othering as you noted, everyone says China bad. Just look at the reporting on Xinjiang. If USA is concerned about how China does things, fix it in your own country first. Lead by example. Or as China does, they’ll do it there way.
Gay marriage is legal in my country. I don’t know what the point you’re making is.
That’s a great read! In terms of the rights conveyed to the union, are they functionally the same under the law?
I was watching this show in the hostel I’m staying at. My Chinese friends explained to me that the show was cancelled after the first episode was aired because the two male leads could be construed as being in a relationship. To be clear there is nothing overtly gay, they are just two attractive men who care about each other and who do not have any female love interests in the show.
When I remarked how ridiculous that was I got push back from two women who told me that it is wrong to expose children to the idea of being gay. I continued to say they were being ridiculous and that China can do better than that.
Huh? Boy Love movies are incredibly popular in China. Mostly by women for some reason.
https://dearstraightpeople.com/2022/08/17/top-chinese-bl-dramas/
They can’t do overtly sexual things, but having to romantic male leads is a hugely popular genre in China.
*Edit: Here’s an even bigger list
Well that flies in the face of what I was told about this show. How strange. They were all fairly adamant as to why the show has been cancelled.
I can’t remember the name of the show, but the premise is that every episode the characters are transported to a world/dimension where they have to solve a puzzle or mystery in order to open a door and get to the next world.
