one thing most any leftist will say about china despite supporting the country is that they’re a very traditionalist culture, and so LGBTQ issues in particular are a blight on leftist westerner’s otherwise positive view of china.
upon scrolling thru rednote, i think that’s bullshit now. i really don’t think you’re worse off being LGBTQ in china than you are in america. yeah, you can’t get married, but that right is under constant threat of being taken away in the US anyway and let’s be real- it probably will be taken away. meanwhile, china is making progress on that front, the US wants to regress.
i saw multiple LGBTQ people on rednote. i saw a lesbian couple, one of the girls even said “LGBT is completely normal in china now, especially in the cities. even the older generations who might not accept it mind their own business”. can that be said about america? how many queer people here have been accosted by some boomer who couldn’t mind their own business? i saw the gayest fucking dude i’ve ever seen in my life (that’s a compliment). he was also wearing makeup and sassily singing along with destiny’s child. completely comfortable in his skin and with his identity, and while all of the comments and his speaking were in mandarin that i couldn’t understand, you can tell by the vibe it was all positive. meanwhile in progressive america, if you’re a guy who wants to put on makeup and go live on tiktok you’re gonna face all sorts of homophobia and bigotry.
one of the few things western liberals could really say about china, that even those of us who are left wing and pro china thought to be at least somewhat true, appears to just straight up not be true.
Makes sense. Cuba had some great strides on LGBTQ issues too.
i still see libs trying to ride on that “THEY SENT GAYS TO CAMPS!!!” first of all no they didn’t, second of all to the extent gay people were mistreated in cuba at the time, every other country was doing the same if not worse and cuban leadership is the only one to come out and say they were wrong for marginalizing gay people. and thirdly, as you pointed out, now cuba has some of if not THE best protections for lgbtq people in the world, so it’s hilarious they’re trying to smear them with half a century old propaganda
They’re doing that because it works. That’s the sad part. The propaganda is low effort because that’s all it needs to be for westerners to believe it.
While there’s no gay marriage, China does have civil unions. Which gives gay people equal rights in the eyes of the law. It was China’s way to placate both sides. The conservatives and the liberals. Imagine, a country that works with and negotiates with its citizens to try to improve the outcome for everyone. Crazy right?
That’s a great read! In terms of the rights conveyed to the union, are they functionally the same under the law?
I think it’s worth pointing out that the same critiques that American LGBT advocates levied at civil unions in the states (which were common pre-Obergfell) are applicable to China. Namely that it’s still a pointless othering and that the goal should be full equality.
The problem with your argument is when China tries to stop othering as you noted, everyone says China bad. Just look at the reporting on Xinjiang. If USA is concerned about how China does things, fix it in your own country first. Lead by example. Or as China does, they’ll do it there way.
Gay marriage is legal in my country. I don’t know what the point you’re making is.
I saw an independent poll from China once that I wished I’d saved which highlighted the nuance of the issue and the bullshit nature of polls. So grain of salt, this is my rough memory.
It had a question like “what is your opinion on homosexuality?” Slim majority negative
“What is your opinion of homosexuality in people you don’t know” overwhelmingly answered “none of my business”
“Would you be happy if your child was homosexual?” Large majority no.
But here’s the kicker there was a question “would you prefer your child be single, childless and heterosexual or married, have children and homosexual?” Overwhelmingly the latter option.
Like even if there’s homophobia it has different material roots and manifestations than it does in the west.
i can confirm this, i know a trans woman who was pressured into getting with a cis lesbian by family so they could have kids. they didnt care that it looked gay they just wanted kids, and the assumption with most gay relationships is there will be no children. many families dont even care if theyre adopted its all about growing the family for their very frequent gatherings. lesbian relationships are generally more accepted because of things like IVF and sperm donors.
also the secret to finding trans women on most chinese social media is to search for the fishcake swirl emoji https://emojipedia.org/fish-cake-with-swirl
also the secret to finding trans women on most chinese social media is to search for the fishcake swirl emoji https://emojipedia.org/fish-cake-with-swirl
Ah, I see the trans Debian user stereotype transcends borders and languages.
For the married part, did they mean “in a heterosexual marriage but homosexual “? Since from my understanding homosexual marriages aren’t legal in China?
But here’s the kicker there was a question “would you prefer your child be single, childless and heterosexual or married, have children and homosexual?” Overwhelmingly the latter option.
Chinese homophobia is rooted in the gay couple not being able to sire children. It isn’t similar to Abrahamic homophobia at all. They easily chose the second option because to be childless is to be an outcast while to have children is to be a full member of Chinese society. They probably would choose the second option even if their kid is married but the couple has undergone sterilization because they don’t want kids.
I think when they say “don’t really care/it’s not important” they actually mean it, as opposed to Westerners who just use this as a smokescreen to hide their anti-queer sentiments.
not only that, but many seem to admit there’s progress to be made and hope/feel they are advancing in normalizing it
a lot of americans just act like in the past few years we’ve hit a plateau and become as accepting as we can possibly be, and that homophobia is really only still an issue with 80 year old republicans in the rural deep south or whatever. i saw chinese people asking americans how queer friendly we are, and that’s basically what all the (presumably cishet) yanks had to say, contrary to the shit i hear while living in one of the most liberal areas in the country
Nearly all the LGBTQ people I have seen on XHS have been Chinese. I have not been seeking LGBTQ content out, so results could differ if you search for it.
CW: transphobic
I saw one Chinese person telling “Mixed-gender” people not to post about it, I don’t remember much besides confusion in the comments. The post did not have much engagement.
I also saw that comment. The vast majority of homophobia and transphobia I’ve seen comes from Americans, basically nothing from Chinese people that is obvious.
That being said, as I understand it, xiaohongshu is quite queer and dominated by women, so maybe it’s not super representative of the country
