Post text:
edit: As I’m seeing a lot of worry about the impact this will/could have on the community, please be assured we have the same mod team, and will be holding the community to the same standards. the same things that were always allowed will continue to be allowed and the same things that got things removed before will continue to get things removed before. Lemmy.world admins have agreed to allow us to run our community on our terms. It is my pleasure to announce that effective immediately, we are transferring our community to Lemmy.world! This has been a few months in the making, so my entire mod team is already on board. FAQ: Why? That’s a complicated question with a long answer! The primary difference is moderatorial and ideologial differences between my team and Ada’s excellent team of admins. We are on good terms with Ada and her team, and have gotten her consent to do this. In addition to this, we have had ongoing issues with federation and moderation that has caused a subpar experience for many people on other instances. How does this work? Currently, as there is not an easy way to transfer an entire community (trust me, we checked), we are locking the community as mod-only, and moving our focus to the 196 on lemmy.world. For you guys, functionally nothing has changed. What about the posts? Well, we tried to transfer them, but there was no real way to do so without absolutely destroying lemmy.world’s federation. For this reason, we are simply archiving this community as mod-only. Everything is staying up, you just won’t be able to post new content. Comments are still enabled, so we will continue to check our modlogs for some time after the transfer has settled. As for the posts on lemmy.world’s 196, we’re leaving those up too. From this point onwards, all posts made to that community are beholden to the rules you are all used to, but anything pre-existing is getting grandfathered in.
IF YOU GUYS HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, PLEASE PUT THEM IN THE COMMENTS OF THIS POST, AND I’LL DO MY BEST TO ANSWER THEM. Once again, here’s the link to our new apartment of awesome. (universal: !196@lemmy.world)
Why would they move from blaahaj to .world? That doesn’t do any good for the Fediverse…
“lack of local moderators” seems to sum it up. the mods just didnt want to use blahaj accounts
Maybe because of the whole “respect all user-specified-pronouns no matter how ridiculous they are” instance rule that was added a few weeks ago?
To put this another way, does respecting “dragonfucker’s” requested pronouns of “drag” and “drag” do more good or more harm for the community?
To put this another way, does respecting “dragonfucker’s” requested pronouns of “drag” and “drag” do more good or more harm for the community?
Pronouns are not negotiable. Considering that pronouns are “deserved” is an easy path to limit their use to other conditions.
Drag is known to be a troll, and should be banned for trolling when relevant. That doesn’t have much to do with pronouns, those are two separate matters.
For clarity are you suggesting that some pronouns shouldn’t be respected based on the judgement of the mods?
If using neopronouns didn’t get a reaction out of people, they wouldn’t do it.
Respecting all pronouns is the best way to deal with trolls.
No one wants to be a flasher in a nudist colony.
196 mods were working on doing this even before that, but that was actually not the first time that Ada had to make an announcement post about that exact policy. I saw it first come up in Blahaj Meta many months ago in the events that eventually led to me taking a mod position at LibertyHub
I got to say the real cringe is that such a decision took months for their mods and they had to discuss with admins of both sites. Just move the community and be done with it. I hate mods acting like they have some huge job especially on lemmy when the mod log is slow and barren.
lol, according to the admin of blahai, they didn’t even talk to her: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/comment/12466657
Ada gets a super bad rep by people who haven’t read anything from them directly. I love how in this response some of that is explained as in inheriting the drama caused by others that Ada had to go in and clean up after.
I respect Ada all the more now as a result of their words here.
Yeah the 196 mods saying they had beef with Ada doesn’t make me think 196 needed to move, it makes me think they need to learn to listen better. Ada isn’t perfect, but they’re consistently calm headed and even handed. Lemmy.world’s admin team on the other hand is…
Look.
The 196 mods are telling us more about themselves than anyone else right now.
Ada’s post and comments regarding neopronouns is a classic: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/20091173
But Ada says they had been talking about it in that comment. They let her know they were thinking about migrating, and Ada supported their decision. Then someone from the 196 mod team let her know when they were working out things with LW. 196 mods did drop the announcement without giving Ada a head’s up, which is definitely bad, but by that point she knew the migration was being organized.
Comment I replied to:
had to discuss with admins of both sites.
In her comment:
I was told that you were thinking about moving to another instance. I offered my support if you decided to stay or to leave. And that was the last I heard of it, until one of your mods (possibly you if I remember correctly) told the community you were organising something with lemmy.world, and I had to hear that second hand. And then, when things were finalised and the decision to move was locked in, once more, I heard about it second hand, after your team made a public post, because no one from 196 could be bothered to tell me before posting.
I wouldn’t call this discussion.
PTB. Mod didn’t communicate with any of the users, then moved to the most universally problematic instance that’s not ML-associated. Awesome. Fucking stupid.
I will he blocking the new community and everyone else should too.
i believe .ml WAS an intended migration point before this was randomly announced. i honestly would’ve been more on board with that! it’s still a bad idea, don’t get it twisted, but at least i might be using the new comm if it had happened that way.
i’d be frustrated about using .ml because my instance, along with many others, defederates it. it would mean having to make a new account, which is really inconvenient.
but there are literally hundreds of other instances to migrate to. and we picked the one that’s already overcrowded and full of power issues.
this is all without addressing the obvious subtext: moss just doesn’t want to work under ada, who has a strong anti-harassment and trans-friendly moderation policy. that’s fine, but it doesn’t give them the right to lock the original blåhaj community. just leave the instance and start your own, more transphobic space. 😒
you’re right, just bad ideas all around. :c
well hey, in the meantime at least things are starting to pop off over at onehundredninetysix!
I think Midwest.social holds that distinction by far, at least in terms of severity, although Lemmy.World definitely is controversial (especially lately) that’s for sure.
I don’t keep up with Lemmy drama.
What’s up with Midwest social?
There needs to be a one-pager because every week there seems to be a new one.
Pasting here from a previous reply I made:
Yeah there was a comment "someone please kill [this person]”, which upon being reported got the reporter banned rather than the poster. And another incident where someone got booted for downvoting a post by the admin. It doesn’t sound like a place that I’d enjoy being on. So I gave up on communities located there and support rather alternatives to them elsewhere. Be a part of the change that we want to see in the world and all of that…
Edit: but importantly, atm the issues seem related solely to the admins, unlike e.g. lemmy.ml and lemmyfrad.ml and hexbear.net where a good fraction of the users seem to have gotten used to speaking inside that echo chamber and then when they venture outside of it are quite contentious (tbf many of them are self-admittedly alts of Hexbear or LG accounts, though it remains that since the Lemmy.ml admins do nothing to stop the situation by removing the trolling comments made by their users, hence the task of dealing with all the toxicity falls onto others across the Fediverse to take matters into their own hands. Anyway this situation does not seem to apply to Midwest.social.)
As soon as I read about this I thought it was a terrible idea, but other than the instance they chose, and the fact that they didn’t bother consulting the community (which are bad in their own right) I didn’t really have enough information, but since their mod team have started responding to people, it has become clear that it is not a community I want to participate in.
Beyond minimising and dismissing the legitimate concerns people have, and being very territorial over a community they had seemingly often left for someone else to mod for them, reading through the comments on one of the announcement posts, I found an example of the kind of “over modding” they disagreed with, and I recognised it as a comment that was removed from a post I had made. At the time I was very glad it, and several like it were removed, and was quite surprised a few days later to see them restored, and was really confused and disappointed. I took it as an orange, almost red flag, which along with a previous unrelated orange/red flag made me take a slight step back from the community.
Now reading Ada’s side of the story, it all makes a lot more sense - my guess is she had originally removed the comments (she had come on to the post to say she was intervening), and the 196 team then swept through and restored a whole chunk of them back when they finally got around to modding themselves.
I’m almost glad this happened, because now I know who restored those comments, and whose modding to be wary of.
Bottom line - these are not the mods for me, and since an alternative has already been opened on blahaj, this is a non issue, screw 'em. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Lmfao, wow, the Musk defence, impressive… 😂
Any evidence to back your wild claims, or…?
This seems like it belongs more to fedilore, rather than here. Should I be allowing these posts? Rfc I guess
I think it fits. Mods could move to another instance, create a new community, post about it, etc. without fucking with the existing one.
Locking the posts on their way out seems like a spite move against all the people not wanting to transfer (a lot, based on the comments). They could jusy as easily hand the community over to new mods instead of killing it. Seems like it’s be better for the community and the fediverse in general and align better with what the community wants.
After they leave, Ada could easily grant a request to open it back up under a different set of mods… you know, if someone were to want that sort of thing.:-D
Locking posts with links to the other community is pretty standard practice. See !carnivore and !television or !carnivore@lemmy.world and !television@lemmy.world
!carnivore@lemmy.world was locked because it was a community allowing harassment
!television@lemmy.world didn’t cause any uproar as the moderation was similar between LW and Lemm.ee, and the communities were very similar as well.
In this case there are more than 250 comments on that post, the vast majority of them being negative. Not sure the situations are similar.
Isn’t locked, and seems like if it was in the past it was done to solve a moderation problem.
Looks like this was consolidated into a similar smaller community in a way that the userbase isn’t complaining about.
These seem like totally unrelated, dissimilar situations and don’t do anything to indicate what happened in the OP is standard practice.
I think the power tripping element here is that this seemingly happened in an instant without any (recent?) warning or communication to the users and it has to do with one of the biggest communities on lemmy
Though this isnt the typical senario where a mod abuses their power over an individual, so hmm
(I searched some fediverse drama communities, but didnt cover this issue.)
might be a bit borderline but probably fine, although it seems more like flouncing off than power tripping. would need more of a writeup to be drama/lore
someone on hexbear has posted blahaj admin ada’s message to the 196 mod team, relevant quote:
I have asked 196 for years now to have an active blahaj.zone mod so that someone can deal with the blahaj.zone reports that constantly come through and build up, but still, the best we got were mods with alt accounts that get checked every couple of days, leaving me to deal with the build up of reports on 196. Sometimes they would hang around there for days while I waited for a 196 mod to log in and look at them. And because you don’t like the way I deal with them, you drag me over the coals for my moderation style, despite no one from 196 stepping up to deal with those reports on a regular basis.
full text here https://lemm.ee/post/52977833/17597222
CLM
That throws the whole thing into a little bit of a new light. Moving to the community where it’ll be actively moderated makes quite a bit of sense to me, even if that means lemmy.world.
Then again, supposedly working moderation for moderators on remote instances is just around the corner with the next release. I don’t know if that is accurate, but this might have been a problem that was solvable if they were willing to wait a couple of months.
moderation is working, generally. it’s the lack of full report federation that is the primary issue currently.
On the other hand, that won’t come out until 0.19.20 reportedly, at the earliest, while iirc it’s been a year since Lemmy.World upgraded to 0.19.3, and were planning on doing an upgrade in January/February. So it could be another full year after the Fediverse gets it but before it appears on Lemmy.World? 😜
More to the point though, how do moderators of one of the most active and perhaps controversial communities across all of Lemmy not bother to check in for two days most of the time? The way this post words things, Ada is the one being abused here, even as they are being thrown under the bus for not doing all of the moderation work to their satisfaction. If I were Ada, I’d be somewhat happy to see them go (though sad for the actual users who get caught up in all this drama).
What is RFC? I don’t see it in the sidebar, I did a search and only found your previous post. If this is a new term, can you add it there to aid those of us with poor memories?:-D
Request for change, it’s more of open source/programming thing than this comm thing.
No. Request for Comments. RFCs are nearly finished proposals. They’re ways of projects to make announcements with a little bit of flexibility.
I agree the lore site is better
The mandate of power tripping bastards, seems to be if the complaint is true, then there are actionable next steps. Censure from the community, elevating to admin, etc
then there are actionable next steps. Censure from the community, elevating to admin, etc
Blahaj admin taking over and unlocking the community seems like an actionable next step
Yeah thats a good point, I suppose I subconsciously took them at their word they had coordinated with the admin teams of both the source and destination instances already.
