…this was a less respectable exchange than what you watch in most vapid reality shows…what a display with so much at stake…
I watched some of the transmission and all I can say is my respect to Zelensky grew tenfold with that exchange alone.
Having to interact with these two clowns and still keeping his cool (as much as he was able to) requires A LOT of patience and will. It was horrifyingly stupid in a train wreck kind of way.
Indeed. He’s in an awful situation and has no good options. With only Europe (both politically and militarily) it will be real hard for them. OTOH with a blackmailed ‘deal’ with orange they loose a big piece of resources without any guarantees not to loose the rest to Russia or to the orange in a deal extension. To get out of this situation without a major loss would be a miracle, but hey, I really hope they make it.
Dude… I am saying this from the most unobjective place I can possibly manage. That was was of the most difficult and annoying things I’ve watched in a very long time. It honestly felt like watching a rational adult deal with his children complaining they can’t have a sleepover or something.
I am shocked that A) the White House wanted that embarrassment broadcast and B) zelensky actually remained remarkably calm.
Man what annoying people to talk with lol I’m trying so hard to see this from a different perspective but I can’t even fathom how that could be seen as anything other than rude and embarrassing.
“You haven’t even thanked us once” lmao
I am shocked that A) the White House wanted that embarrassment broadcast
Trump thinks strength is measured by how many people you confront and bully and threaten. He is not smart enough to realize this isn’t how it looks to people outside his bubble of sycophants and MAGA dummies. Elon Musk clearly thinks the same way, and both Musk and Trump crave the respect they will never earn, so they double down on their idiot edgelord/bully methods. The White House media office will be headed by Trump sycophants, who will see this exchange through MAGA eyes. They see a strong man where everyone else sees a pathetic manchild.
Man, don’t take a look at the conversations sub. They are all high fiving each other over this. For them it was a rush of masculinity and power live on TV. You’ve got folks saying that Vance never looked so good and how they want to name their first born over him.
Does anyone else have the feeling that Ukraine is safer with no deal?
Yeah, and the EU should immediately step up, and triplicate support for Ukraine.
We (Europe) already did most of the heavy lifting for Ukraine. The US mostly gave old stockpiles of weapons that they would’ve needed to destroy anyway. We are the ones actually paying cash to keep them afloat.
The problem is, in the post-WW2 order, our defense and our defense industry was made dependent on the USA by design. And even up until last November, Europe didn’t want to challenge this arrangement and just went full steam ahead with this arrangement, ordering US made weapons. I think Europe was in denial that Biden could lose or that NATO could ever end.
Only France, and to a limited extent, Sweden and Turkey, have independent defense industries.
In the future, we will have it again. And Ukraine will actually be a key player.
But in the short term, there is no magical button to press that can produce the arms.
Undoing decades of integration isn’t going to be easy.
Putin is going to make a hard move into the baltics during Trump’s first 2 years, including NATO countries. And Europe won’t be able to do shit about it. They need defenses now and European leadership needs to fast track it.
Indeed, especially during the first Cold War, the US Military Industrial Complex was everywhere. Germany and Japan were forced to buy out dated shit from the Americans. The magical button, tell the US military to shutdown all their European military installations and leave. What would the US MIC do then? I highly doubt they want to lose business.
I mostly agree, but I think the list needs Germany’s excellent Leopard (2) tanks, the modern APC variants and all their industry.
Europe also has a lot of good marine yards that can make Navy vessels and submarines.
And it can drum up drone production in a rapid tempo where needed.
What’s more, European Steel and metallurgy are out of the door of higher grade than the US, Russia and Chinese productions. This is a boon to produce heavy armor quickly.
So when push comes to shove Europe can no doubt ramp up a unified military industry rapidly, no need for it to take a decade, and keep finances in house. Another factor that works against the Trump economy if he thoughtlessly pulls the plug on NATO
I’d suspect they’re safer with a deal… but they absolutely shouldn’t honor that deal.
Any deal with Trump is no deal at all. He’s the kind of guy that, if you give an inch, starts waving his hands around about how you stole 16 inches from him, and how you must be thrown in a hole somewhere.
Granting him anything is telling him that you are weak and ripe to be exploited.
Yes. USA already knows what its going to do. A hypothetical trade agreement isn’t going to change the decision, so Ukraine should make exactly zero concessions in pursuit of influencing a decision which has already been made.
A man who, by the way, was fully supported by every single democratic senator.
He was supposed to be the “adult” in the room. They all fear Trump… For some reason, I don’t get it.
The best thing Ukraine can do is walk away.
Edit: changed think to thing
Trump still thinks he’s the star of some corny TV show. Get fucked asshole.
