Cross posted from Discuit
/r/thathappened material
If they had just said “my Trump voting Neighbor just lost his job at the USDA. FAFO.” I’d be totally down to believe it. Tons of people are losing their jobs right now, that is reality. But the flag/house thing? Give me a fucking break
Loosing a job means no more mortgage payments, so that’s not too far fetched.
I get the hate, but I just can’t bring myself to be happy about someone losing their home.
If this were a normal, fairly subjective disagreement, I’d feel the same way.
If this were a medium level disagreement and they were objectively wrong, I’d also feel the same way.
Supporting Trump is stunningly, objectively wrong, and in doing so they’re basically doing the opposite of this. They’re supporting lots of people losing a lot more than their homes.
I fully support being happy about it.
happy
I think the only reason people ever say things like this make them ‘happy’ is in the absence of a more accurate label.
In a country devoid of legal justice, we’ve basically just been confronted by a thug who, while attempting to mug us at gunpoint, shot his own dick off when he was attempting to pull the firearm from his pants.
So for the victim, there’s a degree of relief that the threat from that specific thug is now over (unfortunately we’re being simultaneously mugged by thousands of other identical thugs…), a complete lack of empathy for the thug from the victim (if you put my life in danger, I suddenly don’t give a single fuck about the quality or preservation of yours); and a recognition of the comical irony of the thug’s own weapon being the thing that disabled him.
Against the contrast we’ve grown accustomed to of getting mugged and watching our assailants face zero consequences, the above stands out as uniquely positive, albeit morbid.
Another angle: if you’ve persisted on dirty, sewage contaminated water your entire life; then get the opportunity to drink a glass of pure, clean water, you might call it sweet even if it isn’t literally so; it just seems that way relative to the vile biohazard you’re used to.
So, happiness? No. The closest we’ll be able to get to happiness? Yeah, probably.
I think the only reason people ever say things like this make them ‘happy’ is in the absence of a more accurate label.
Schadenfreude? Commonly translated to English as “joy at seeing other’s misfortune.” I hope in most cases it is more associated with seeing someone in the wrong receiving their comeuppance. The joy of watching your enemy suffer a setback or even defeat.
Kinda, but again I think ‘joy’ doesn’t really hit the mark. We’re all trapped in the same gas chamber; there are some trapped with us that we’ll take the opportunity to tell “We told you so…” and when they complain that it hurts to breathe, we tend not to give a shit about their suffering cuz they literally asked for it.
It stands out as a silver lining, but only because the situation we’re in is so shitty that it’s the least negative part of what’s happening.
I get that we want to gloat. Because we were right. But what happens with this person? Does he see how wrong he was? Does he attempt to change his ways, and influence others who thought the same? Does this bring about any kind of positive change? Or does he just go live in his pickup truck with a camper shell and blame Obama and Biden because he’s poor now?
I’m simply happy that they’re seeing what they wanted for other people. They voted for the man who openly said he would make life harder and kick people out of their homes, and they gleefully enjoyed it thinking it was only people they disliked.
I’m all for people learning lessons the hard way when they refused to see reason. Especially when the reason was to be kind and empathetic in the first place.
In every rational situation, I would fully agree. But this man elected someone who told them, to their face, that they would be downsizing the government. The WORKED for the government. I want to call it stupidity, but it was maliciousness that backfired, so yeah. Fuck em.
Please remember it is important to not gloat or “I told you so”. This person, for a reason of which does not matter, has decided to exit the cult. This person needs support and praise for their bravery. I don’t care if it is for a selfish reason… ultimately they made it out, their mind is free! That is cause for celebration.
Heres the problem. We kept the gloating and “I told you so” to a minimum after Trump round 1 and the Civil war.
Hammer it home. They need to know Every. Fucking. Minute. Of every. Fucking. Day. That the choices they made got them fired, took their job, and ruined their country. Almost everyone knew it was going to happen and warned them, and they just dug deeper with their knee-jerk “nuh-uh” fake news 3rd grade playground bully logic. They need to know beyond a doubt that they are stupid, short-sighted, easily manipulated bigots. Why? Because the only way they can change it and do better is if they fucking know it, believe it, and see that they need to change it.
I think the “I treat people like shit and expect them to change their view because of it” is harmful.
This is not how you change a mind. This is how to get sombody to double down on their bullshit who where ready to change their views.
Right, because telling people “they’re special and nice and it’s not their fault that the orange dictator is ruining the country” has historically never ever worked once.
It depends.
When the group hurts you through its own incompetence, you can land in hard times and still believe the ideals of that group. The ability for people to rationalize things is incredibly powerful.
Now let’s say that the trump supporter is ready to no longer support trump now that they’ve been personally victimized. Where they end up can be a massive spectrum. Cult followers tend to idolize and forge parasocial relationships with their cult leader.
You might think that you are seeing them reject trumpism and all it stands for, when in reality it’s much closer to someone feeling betrayed by someone they believed they had a close personal relationship with. Their rejection of the cult has nothing to do with what the cult believes, but comes from a reaction to a feeling of betrayal by the beloved cult figure.
In that case the fertile ground to win hearts and minds isn’t there. There are excellent case studies of this “embrace to change minds” strategy working.Daryl Davis converting 200 Ku klux klanmen is an inspiring story, and one that many point to to support the idea of embracing people instead of punishing them.
The problem is that this isn’t the same situation. Daryl Davis was willing to spend years talking with, and building relationships with people that actively hated him. He didn’t go to people who had a tiff with their local klan leader and tell them “it’s ok buddy, let’s be friends now, I forgive you.” Instead he put in a tremendous amount of effort to build relationships which made it impossible for these guys to continue to hold on to their bigoted beliefs
So what’s the danger in not treating these people like shit? Even if it were ineffective, isn’t it better to just be nice to them anyways? We have a contemporary example to draw from, reconstruction.
After the us civil war there was a difference of opinion much the same as the one we argue today. And we tried the gentler approach
As it became clear that the war would end in a Union victory, Congress debated the process for the readmission of the seceded states. Radicaland moderate Republicans disagreed over the nature of secession, the conditions for readmission, and the desirability of social reforms as a consequence of the Confederate defeat. Lincoln favored the “ten percent plan” and vetoed the radical Wade–Davis Bill, which proposed strict conditions for readmission.
Lincoln was assassinated on April 14, 1865, just as fighting was drawing to a close. He was replaced by President Andrew Johnson. Johnson vetoed numerous Radical Republican bills, he pardoned thousands of Confederate leaders, and he allowed Southern states to pass draconian Black Codesthat restricted the rights of freedmen. His actions outraged many Northerners and stoked fears that the Southern elite would regain its political power. Radical Republican candidates swept to power in the 1866 midterm elections, gaining large majorities in both houses of Congress.
Many argue that the confederacy and its ideals never truly died. The light touch, left many holding regressive ideals in places of power. They had not given up their ideals, they just couldn’t be a part of the group anymore.
In most cases the argument is somewhat moot. The most likely scenario is that my relationship (and most peoples relationship) with some random trump supporter that gets kicked in the nuts by trump will be the same as before, no relationship at all. In the rare situation that this person is someone you do plan to forge a relationship with (either net new or reestablishing some previous relationship) I think it is neither wise to “treat them like shit” nor “let them off the hook”
Instead it should be a careful assessment of what they actually believe. Do they still blame immigrants and trans people for everything that’s wrong in their life but just don’t like that trump fired then, then they can kindly go fuck themselves. They haven’t learned any lesson, they just don’t like that they had something bad happen to them. Sure give them a chance, don’t immediately piss all over them, but if the only problem they have is that it finally directly impacted them, they are no ally.
If it’s a catalyst for true and lasting change, sure nurture that.
No, MAGAts revel in the misery they cause … thay love “owning the libs” and literally want nothing else in life. Nothing. They are fueled by an insane level of hatred and cruelty. It is all they understand. When you point and laugh at them for the “face eating” … they actually get it. MAGAts do not leave their cult, they just get displaced until the next cult that let’s them be hateful racists comes around.
Is there any evidence they decided to exit the cult? People will paint the walls beige when selling a house, and that doesn’t mean they don’t still like whatever red and green Christmas themed house they had to start with. Pulling down a flag while selling the house you can’t afford doesn’t actually mean you wouldn’t still vote for him.
Is “MAGAtard” okay to say on Lemmy without getting banned? It’s not a slur against mentally challenged people FFS, it’s a slur against MAGA. I think MAGAt is a poor substitute.
If you have to ask, you probably already know the answer. You can insult them without playing off of a slur for another group.
How the fuck did democrats go from the party that hates misinformation to the party that believes implausible posts on a platform known to be full nonsense because it fits a cute narrative?
Considering how Lemmy feels about democrats and how everyone claims to be a true leftist…
Just because the Democrats are the most left leaning party available to Americans doesn’t make the democratic party a left leaning party. If anything the Democrats are centerists because their ultimate objective is to maintain the status quo. Lemmy reaches to far more countries that just the United States, places that have left leaning parties. Even left-wing extremists parties, although they’re definitely on the ropes lately.
The Democrats aren’t a progressive party, they’re a conservative party. It’s just with MAGA in the room the scale has moved so far to the right that the center (conservative) seems progressive.
- On Twitter, the site known for random misinformation
- OP knows their neighbor well enough to know where they work, despite that not being nearly as common these days and OP not seeming like the kind of guy that would befriend Trump supporters
- OP’s neighbor is one of the minority of federal workers who are probationary employees, because that’s the only group Elon has been able to really fire right now
- OP’s neighbor simultaneously being a homeowner with a previously-stable job, but being in such dire financial straits that simply missing two paychecks results in a complete crashout.
- OP’s neighbor then selling the house instead of taking advantage of the large number of hardship programs that would be available for someone with issues paying their mortgage, at least temporarily.
Like is this possible? Yes. However it’s highly implausible, and conveniently matches the whole “stupid Drunpf supporters regret their decision” narrative that both Lemmy and reddit absolutely adore. To take this at any sort of face value without any genuine shred of concrete evidence is insane.
OP’s neighbor is one of the minority of federal workers who are probationary employees, because that’s the only group Elon has been able to really fire right now
This part isn’t true. At this point, probably over half of the fired workers were permanent, from agencies that are closing or are implementing RIFs. Most are still drawing paychecks, but budgeting does (and should) change once someone is informed that they’ll be out of a job in the next month or two.
For many agencies, these satellite offices often have monopsony power over workers of certain job skills. NOAA and the National Weather Service employ a lot of people who have job functions not really available from another employer, especially without moving. The same is true of NIH and CDC. HHS just announced the closure of several lawyer offices, and those specialists are going to have a bit of a rough time finding replacement jobs. USDA is a big organization, and have a ton of economists and scientists who would basically have to take a big pay cut if they’re laid off in this environment.
You’re downplaying just how devastating some of these job losses are, by ignoring that many of these people moved to these cities in reliance on the job stability they expected, and downplaying the number of people affected and the length of tenure these people have.
I don’t have a strong view of whether this story is literally true of this specific account’s neighbor. But I can tell you that versions of this story have happened to thousands already, and will happen to tens of thousands more.
How did getting laid off during cutbacks go from commonplace to implausible? Are you taking the wrong meds?
Nobody is this stupid. You’re being intentionally dishonest.
USDA isn’t the private sector. There are strict rules against firing the vast majority of employees. It’s why Trump has largely gone after probationary employees, as they have less protections. Even that has been wrapped up in several different ongoing court cases.
There are also mortgage forbearance programs designed for temporary job loss. Even without them, foreclosure is a lengthy process. It’s not something that’s initiated after one missed payment.
So for this story to be true:
- OP, a progressive Twitter influencer, lives next to a hardcore MAGA republican. Unlikely, but relatively common
- Said MAGA republican is also a federal government employee. More unlikely, but still relatively common
- Said federal government employee is among the roughly 10 percent of government workers that are probationary. Relatively rare, but not unheard of
- Despite being new to federal employment and federal employment known for someone that you do for the long haul for pension reasons, OP’s neighbor has the money to buy a house. Relatively rare, but not unheard of
- Despite having the finances for a home, is in such dire straits that the only option after one missed paycheck is to sell their home. Very rare, but not unheard of
- Despite being very into politics and a government employee, is wholly unaware of the pending legal actions against said firing, including the current rulings reversing the staffing cuts.
All of this is possible. The world is a strange place. However the confluence of all those things being true is highly improbable, perfectly matches the “dumb conservatives gonna regret their choice” narrative progressive influencers push, and is sourced from a platform known for being full of misinformation and bait.
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