Genocide Joe has already done 80% of the work.
And there is zero reason to believe he would do anything to stop what they are doing now.
He would blabber some words about having to watch out for civilian deaths while sending them more arms.
His actions are 100% the same except he’s a hypocrite about it.
All these things you mention are just empty words.
Like Genocide Joe or copmala’s emty words.
What matters is actions and facts.
And the complete support for genocide is a fact.
So there is no difference, except as I said before, the dems being absolute hypocrites about it.
Because of Shit happening in a country you probably didn’t give a shit about a year and a half ago
You don’t know shit about me, so drop your BS claims out of vile hate and frustation from losing, which you people invariably project at true leftists, more than Trump bcs you’re all so mad some people have an actual consciense and humanity and couldn’t bare to be complicit by voting for either of the genocide factions.
Besides, you’re having a clear case of the projections. Look at all the libs suddenly caring about evil orange man who is doing nothing different.
Anyway, enough of this, you people will never learn anyway.
A waste of time.
Damn you show up in every single Palestine post to stan for Genocide Joe.
And you show up in every political post saying dumb shit like “genocide Joe.”
Since you are changing the goal post I will bring it back to the original intent.
You are a hypocrite that spews tankie ampliganda - Genocide Joe. You have used the suffering of Gaza for a political agenda.
Fascist play with empathy, change goal posts, and gaslight.
You are one.
We show up in every Palestine post because we got constant verbal abuse from you people throughout the election cycle because we wanted to avoid the thing you just posted
The genocide which was perpetrated by Joe Biden and Kamala Harris which you fully condoned?
centrists are just happy that at no point did they have to reconsider their loving support for genocide.
Ooooh! I supposed that makes this timeline SO much better than how things would be under Kamala.
Thanks for the perspective, bud!
In the Kamala timeline, Israel keeps genociding the Palestinians while the democrats try to do a lot of mental gymnastics to try to paint it as a good thing
You have no moral leg to stand on. Barely any noticeable difference between you and Trump/MAGA in how you view Palestinians as subhuman.
I would love to come across one of the voters that voted for the orange fascist because they thought Kamala would be worse for the Palestines somewhere in the wild. It would be incredible to see if they still feel strongly about it now.
Biden was pressuring Israel to act but also to do so with civilians in mind and to allow humanitarian efforts or risk getting cut off from military aid. Also the line that Kamala most probably would have towed as well. This is for those familiar with global politics is expected between long standing allies ( something Trump is currently failing at every stage currently). Meanwhile Orange Musolini has basically said “Have at it, also that spot there would be great for a hotel”. So I fail to see how you could even compare the two. But sure I guess if you happened to fail to grasp the nuance in global politics.
Unless you happened to have another point to make that is more substantive then “bOth PaRtIeS”.
Reduce the influence of parties by passing state level electoral reform. Replace of First-past-the-post voting, use a voting system that let’s voters transfer their vote if their first pick didn’t win. Give 3rd parties the opportunity to participate without a spoiler effect.
You do support democracy right?
No, they didn’t apply any genuine pressure, just empty rhetoric while continuing to provide billions worth of weapons unconditionally while Netanyahu ignored every “red line” with zero consequences. Biden is a self-proclamed Zionist, he had no issue with the genocide. All the empty rhetoric was just theater
The rhetoric coming out of the White House, when it has been focused on peace or restraint, rather than continuous war, has been undercut at every turn by its actions. The constant supply of weapons — $17.9 billion of bullets, bombs, shells, and other military aid in the past year — has allowed Israel to keep waging its war on Gaza, and in recent weeks, expand that war to Lebanon and threaten to escalate its conflict with Iran. Despite documentation of U.S. weapons being used in probable war crimes, and credible allegations that Israel is committing genocide in its war on Gaza, the bombs have continued to flow.
Year of Empty Rhetoric From the White House on Israel’s Wars
Uh…I’m sorry to tell you, but republicans and Trump won. Everything that is happening right now is happening under republican rule. Sitting in your own piss abd blaming others don’t work anymore!
Do you realize that Gaza has been completely flattened under Kamala Harris? Agent Orange is now bombing the ruins of Genocide Joe. Kamala would be doing the exact same thing as Donald Trump.
Selling lgbt people, ethnic minorities, immigrants, poor people dependent on social programs only to gain… nothing. What a deal…
First they came for the Palestinians. And you did not speak out because you are not a Palestinian.
I was gonna say “there’s tons of em on .ml” but one of em was nice enough to prove it right in this thread
Yeah, I am happy to try and go back and forth with the odd stray here. Not sure what those other heavily moderated conservative instances are like but if they are like the askconservative subreddit where I had to avoid using triggering words such as Trans because they would go all snow flakey on me then I suspect they might be the same even here.
Edit: I will add that was from a party of free speech, where they could not even distinguish why trying to discuss Trans rights and them censoring it because it triggered them was completely different when left leaning politics was trying to censor racist/nazi/misogynistic talking points because the latter usually resulted in an increase in violent crimes or in the very least condoned it.
I love when people try to make some type of comparison between one fascist foreign policy party and another like one is better.
This is American foreign policy. It is bipartisan. The only difference between Biden and Trump on Israel is the aesthetics.
There is absolutely no reason to guilt anyone for not voting for the administration that was currently supporting a genocide or one that voted for the one that would support one in the future. US foreign policy is bipartisan. The US was always going to abandon Ukraine and it will always support Israel. If you think that one would be different then you haven’t read any history on US foreign policy.
The fact you even thought to call both policies fascist is incredible to me.
One side at least attempted to apply pressure. Was it enough and more should have been done I will not argue with that. But no way in shape or form is the current option better when there was better chance of something happening under the other option given enough pressure.
Plenty of reason to understand these people better so that messaging can be refined for the future, if they choose to feel guilt over their action or inaction because of this then good. Because look at whats happening and if this was their sole reason for withholding or voting another way then yeah I say they need to feel guilt so they can learn themselves how to better use their power to create change.
I like how the people that a year ago were telling you to shut up about Palestine because it was hurting Biden are now trying to guilt trip you about Palestine
“yOu ShoULd hAve vOTeD FOr OuR BabY kiLLeR tO SToP ThE otHeR BabY kiLLeR!”
I have no idea what you’re on about vis a vis voted for Trump believing he’d be better for Palestine. A minority people refused to vote Kamala because of her open support of genocide, but that doesn’t mean they voted for Trump.
In either case, why is it their fault and not the fault of the democratic establishment exactly? Shouldn’t your ire be for establishment democrats who refused to stop supporting a genocide? They could’ve done that, you know. This might blow your fucking mind but democrats can actually do stuff. No one was holding Kamala secretly at gun point and forcing her to support genocide. She refused to stop and instead parroted the usual talking points of Israel’s “right to defend itself.” Shouldn’t that be the subject of your anger and frustration? Shouldn’t you be furious at the democratic establishment becoming more and more conservative as time goes on? Shouldn’t you be outraged at the way democrats persecute the progressive elements within their own political party? Instead of angry at the handful of people who tried to make their voices heard on the subject of literally funding and arming genociders?
Like what the fuck do you think political change within the democratic party looks like? Do you think that defending the establishment from anything and everything is how you get them to change? As each successive administration comes and goes the democrats have moved further and further to the right. They are well into conservative territory ideologically, and that should be immediately obvious to anyone paying attention. Gavin Newsom outright supported wild transphobia like forcing trans women into men’s prisons just last week. And he’s not the only one who’s done this. The democratic party is not a party of progressives. They only support minorities until they feel it inconveniences them in any way.
I just do not think that is representative of the larger push back against Kamala’s campaign for supporting further Palestinian genocide. The majority of people who fell into this camp of refusing to vote for her were Palestinians. They had every right not to vote for someone who openly said she would continue to fund and arm the people killing their families and utterly destroying their communities. The correct thing was always for the Democrats to support human rights globally, to stand firmly against colonialism and stand with the Palestinians. They refused to do that. It’s honestly incredibly gross to find fault with people refusing to politically support people who are explicitly involved in the destruction of their people.
Stop punching down. Punch someone who actually deserves it for once. The democratic party does not have to be the conservative genocide supporting party against the fascist aspirational genociders party. Thats what they are now. They are far more committed to furthering the neo-liberal ideals of “western enterprise” and “american power” than they are committed to doing what is right for their own citizens or people across the world. They will do small gestures of support for minority rights and anti-colonialism but when push comes to shove if it means sacrificing their ruling class wealthy benefactors they will refuse. This isn’t going to change by fighting other working class people. It isn’t going to change by punching down.
Rule 2: Be respectful, especially when disagreeing. Everyone should feel welcome here.
You got a temp ban for calling people children, stupid/delusional and trolls. We can all see your moderation history by going in the menu under the three dots.
Oh I see you told people to die just a month ago. Hope you get well soon.
6 months up to the election there were posts on Lemmy every single day with people saying they were going to protest vote for Trump because of Gaza.
This may surprise you but Lemmy isn’t the whole world. Even excluding the many users who arent American, the users who are do not number such a large percentage as to influence the outcome of an election.
Please point out in my comment where I said there cote would have flipped the election results, also please note you and others stated alot as evidence for these can be found that the majority just did not vote in protest because of this issue. But I won’t accept that there is zero that actually did vote for Trump for this issue that is mathematically improbable.
People write of the non-voters or the ones (I will accept that these are very small amount) as a non-issue to focus on. But for me even understanding all facets of why they did what they did in light of how it’s currently panning out is to me a better understanding to find out what really went/going on in relation to people and this issue within their decision making particularly because there was a chance it could have been remotely better then what is occurring right now.
I’m not saying that not even a single person voted for Trump, mistakenly believing his human rights policies to be better. I am saying that is an extreme outlier. The majority of those refusing to vote for Kamala Harris in relation to the ongoing Palestinian genocide were Palestinians.
Just reading the last paragraph really shows how separated you are from the concept of genocide. The amount of death and destruction wrought while Biden was president is unlike anything that had happened there before the Nakba. The equivalent of several nuclear bombs. The total devastation of their entire culture. They pleaded with the Biden administration for a full year. They protested around the world. Biden and Harris did nothing. Harris indicated she was going to continue the Biden admin’s policy agenda with Israel. You were asking them to vote for people who openly said they’d arm and fund a regime that is decimating their communities, murdering their families, raping their people, and destroying their homeland. This ALL happened under Biden, and Harris openly refused to commit to changing that.
Post about israel stating they will exterminate Palestinians
You: it’s because of leftists and muslims and communists and santa maybe batman too.
Way to subtly change the subject and optics. Why don’t you focus on the fact that the United States is currently aiding and supporting a genocide that has been unfolding for the last 70 years? I’m not american and I would have voted for Harris if I was one, but you are disgraceful for using minorities like tokens you can use and throw as you please, I’m quite certain that even if all of them voted for Harris, trump would still have been elected due to your f***** up gerrymandering policy. Putting the blame on hundreds of thousands and not on the millions of apolitical voters is MAGA level nonsense.
WELL, it’s worth discussing that leading up to the 2024 US General Election there was a bit of a bizarre alliance between global leftists and MAGA when it comes to media and information warfare.
For completely opposite reasons each, of course. MAGA thought Trump was going to take the US to being the next level of Imperialist superpower. Global leftists thought Trump was going to destroy the US’s power and influence and end the era of the US being the world’s sole superpower.
Only time will tell who was correct. Right now it looks like the global leftists were right - the US’s influence is rapidly deteriorating, and it may never recover.
Trump is looking like a big global leftist win in taking down the US - at the cost of many Palestinian lives. And maybe this was the trolley dilemma, with millions of Palestinians on one track, and billions of people on the other. Can we accuse leftists of being the ones to flip the switch? No, but leftists absolutely argued in favor of flipping the switch to trump and the downfall of America, at the cost of many Palestinian lives.
You are right that it is necessary to have this conversation but is it the right place to do it under this particular post ?
Also even if I totally understand your point of view and could definitely debate about it, something is bothering me, where does the democratic party errors comes into play? Why put all the blames on a minor part of the voter base? If we look at hard numbers the chances of Kamala winning were still extremely low even if she won their votes so it’s seem pointless for me to always keep poking the wounds under any post with a mention of Palestinians.
My point is that we should be going forward and not ostracizing a part of the voter base even more, these are hard times ahead of us and uniting is what I think the only solution, some Pro-Palestinians may have not voted or even voted for trump but we need to remember that if they are (rightly) angry it’s because they have been failed, I cannot fathom how one must feel seeing dozens of corpses everyday that looks like them for more than a year while knowing their taxes go towards the ones doing it.
It’s a duty to reconcile the voter base and create a strong front against fascism worldwide.
Please point out where in my post I said that their vote would have even caused a flip in the election results, there was a group that withheld their vote in protest (not the ones that simply did not vote). So I will say there is no evidence I can produce that they voted for Trump, but the chance of none existing is not zero either. So yes I would like to talk to one of those voters or non-voters in protest to better understand why they initially thought a withholding of their vote in the first place when the worse option was clearly the other option should the election go one way in light of the current votes.
Understanding what went wrong at all levels, and those protesting and withholding their votes was part of that issue. So cannot and should not be ignored if we are to learn from this for the future.
I’m sorry but in this context, under this specific post, you do not seem genuine or honest from my POV, if you are truly interested in my opinion you will find it in this thread.
What else is there to say if not than the democrats have pushed for the ostracism of their own base to pander to their donors, failed to reach a majority of the population due to a baseless political program…?
Keep on poking, acting all virtuous, and generalizing the minority yet most activist part of your voter base… I mean wake me up when the democrats do the next protest, I wouldn’t want to miss such a rare occurrence, and oh my… The cardboard are so creative…
Edit: If your first instinct about Israel officially announcing they will ethnically cleanse people was to ask a non question about why 1% of the american may have withhold their vote because of the Palestinian Genocide… Yet not considering Roe vs Wades, the hundreds of massacres sponsored by the US, the non action against the corrupted media owned by American Oligarchs and the corrupted and criminal enterprise which is the MAGA Movement than what went wrong in your thought process…
Most just abstained, voters who actually switched sides don’t exist imo. If you voted trump last election, you never would have voted kamala even if she actually tried to win.
That being said, I can’t really blame people for drawing the line at genocide of all things. The dems thought they had an easy win so they decided to represent genocide instead of us, the voters. I still voted for them regardless but it felt altogether gross. It shouldn’t feel that way, they are supposed to be the good ones.
I don’t think we should condone the behavior by pivoting the blame to voters, who are just trying to be heard since clearly the democratic party has stopped listening.
Most just abstained
An abstain from voting is a vote that says “I’m fine with anyone or everyone”. An abstain is a vote that says “I am complacent to the outcome”.
If you want to protest, if nothing else, write in.
I can’t really blame people for drawing the line at genocide of all things
They didn’t draw the line at genocide. If you stand and watch and do nothing you are complicit in the genocide.
I’ll quote another comment of mine in this same thread.
The majority of people who fell into this camp of refusing to vote for her were Palestinians. They had every right not to vote for someone who openly said she would continue to fund and arm the people killing their families and utterly destroying their communities. The correct thing was always for the Democrats to support human rights globally, to stand firmly against colonialism and stand with the Palestinians. They refused to do that. It’s honestly incredibly gross to find fault with people refusing to politically support people who are explicitly involved in the destruction of their people.
The continuing refusal of liberals to have any empathy for Palestinians is entirely emblematic of the failures of the democratic party. Over and over and over again you will compromise on genocide, compromise on human rights itself, to defend the disgusting political decisions of the democratic establishment. It’s never the fault of the democratic establishment for funding and arming a genocide, it’s always the fault of the minorities who wouldn’t vote for a party support the killing of their families and razing of their communities. How in god’s name do you plan to fight against fascism if you can’t even stand against racist colonialist ideology in the political party you support?
The strawmen keep getting bigger and bigger in these threads. Pretty soon they will be so big we will be able to host burning man. While I am sure said voters do exist, they were not the millions of votes that the democrats needed.
It would be incredible if democrats got rid of First-past-the-post boring in the blue states they control so people could be free to vote outside the two party system with no spoiler effect. But capitalists hate competition.
As we can see by democratic inaction on reforming the voting system at the state level, democrats want to continue the hostage situation they present in every election. This is not democracy. Forcing people to vote for your preference will never be democracy. Thus the voting system flaws must be treated like the crisis that it is.
We must be pushing for electoral reform in every state, but why is it so difficult to get the supposed democracy advocates in the democratic party to start moving towards making these critical reforms happen in states they control?
Feel free to make excuses for the democrats. Feel free to attack me all you want. State level rlectoral reform will continue to be the nonviolent way out of this mess. I hope yall come around, even if it probably is to late.
Electoral Reform Videos
First Past The Post voting (What most states use now)
Videos on alternative electoral systems
You falsely assume that I even considered these people having the overall numbers to even flip the election results, my comment is based on seeing how they feel about their decision now considering they were quite vocal about not voting for Kamala because she was a warhawk and therefore voted for a supposed “better”.
The rest of your point has nothing to do with the article nor my point. So please ensure keep to the topic on hand.
I didn’t vote for Trump but let’s not pretend that Harris was going to stop it as she didn’t distance herself from Biden on this issue. Biden had 15 months and he didn’t, not even symbolically at the UN choosing to veto ceasefire, vote against Palestinian right to self determination and continue sending Israel weapons.
The fuck you on about? Trump announced to the world that the intent is to remove all Palestinians, permanently, to build resorts.
When did Kamala openly say the genocide should be accelerated and made total?
I agree that Trump is worse overall, but Harris would have still continued what Biden was doing and would have allowed the genocide to continue. By the end of Biden’s term 80% of Gaza was already destroyed, over 40,000 killed and Blinken at least once suggested removing the Palestinians from Gaza to Egypt and Jordan on his meeting with Arab leaders. It was covered in Arabic media but you may have missed it. Trump didn’t come up with anything new, he is just more unabashed and crude about it.
I voted for Jill Stein by the way.
I too would like to come across one in the wild, because despite people constantly bitching about them, I’ve yet to see evidence that they exist
Please see the below excerpt from reddit:
“# CMV: Leftist Single Issue Voters are a massive problem for Democrats.
For context, I am a leftist, by American standards at least, and have seriously considered not voting in the upcoming election because of the Anti-Palestine stance taken by the Democrats. That said, I have realized how harmful of an idea that is for the future of our country and for progressive politics in general. The core issue with Single Issue Voters is that they will almost always either vote Republican or not vote at all, both of which hurt Democrats“
Also link to an article that shows there was in the very least uncommitted voters because of this. Yes, I will admit it does not mean they actually voted for Trump but their inaction caused the same result even if they did vote for Trump.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/nov/18/uncommitted-campaign-democrats-gaza-election
So let allow me to correct my initial statement here for you, I would like to meet to talk to those who withheld their vote because they thought to make a statement about the genocide in Gaza in the light of the current Authoritarian administration.
They are in this thread
Ill retract that, not in this thread, but they do exist.
I’ve met bigfoot, he’s definitely real. I don’t have any evidence, you just gotta trust me, bro. I’m a random person on the internet, I couldn’t possibly be full of shit.
Downvoted. Not boring.
@JustZ@lemmy.world look, man!!!
They won’t spare them if they kick out HAMAS. Right now, the terrorists are actually the lesser evil.
