Context (for those who don’t know): Israel and Palestine
Alternate caption: “Zionists smuggling in settlers before the British mandate ended to have enough votes to create a State of Israel as a safe haven for Holocaust refugees, then getting populated mostly by Jews fleeing Arab countries out of fear of retaliation for having created the State of Israel a day early and having pushed most Palestinians out by force”
You realize that most Israelis came from Europe after WW2?
or do you think Liebermann, Herzog, Weitzmann, Goldberg, Weinstein etc. are Arabic names?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israelis 33 % are ethnic Europeans as opposed to 12% from asia and 15% from Africa
Ashkenazim have European surnames because Europeans literally forced them unto Jews. Austro-Hungary, Russian Empire - both had policies for giving Jews “local” surnames (for taxation purposes). It’s how you get Jews with German surnames in eastern and central Europe (i.e.the ones you have listed), and how you get Jews with Ukrainian and Russian-ish surnames in the appropriate areas (see Abramovich, Litvak)
Someone’s parents never taught them to share.
Obligatory fuck religion.
Palestine is not a religious entity, and have been in favor of religious coexistence since the very beginning. It is the Zionist state that is exclusive of other religions by design.
All the yelling of “Allahu akbar” while celebrating the death and destruction in Israel, would seem to be in conflict with your statement.
yelling of “Allahu akbar”
Saying “God is great” is problematic?
celebrating the death and destruction in Israel
They are resisting against the Zionist state founded on genocide and exclusivism. I don’t see that violating their will for coexistance.
So then, why is their official goal to destroy Israel? Thats 100% a religious war
Israel is by its own definition the Zionist state founded on religious exclusivism. An ethnocentric state in a land inhabited by other religions and ethnicities. It should absolutely be taken down.
religious war
Israel is not Judaism.
One group was actually living there and the other group moved in and literally ripped people from their homes.
That’s been happening for the last 5,000 years in that region though, since the Canaanites.
It’s not like the Palestinians were the first there.
That’s why I love this video, it explains it very well in a graphic manner:
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/8tIdCsMufIY?si=maslr0cZLs-xmTl5
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
The Palestinians are descendants of the ancient canaanites. Most of the people in that region never left they just changed their religion at some point. This hasn’t always been happening, in Ottoman times Christians Jews and Muslims peacefully coexisted in the region.
I mean, kinda? They’re also heavily descended from 7th Century AD Arabic conquerors, but yes, many other natives may have adopted Arabic culture, language and religion at that time.
But Jewish culture is also derived from the Canaanite culture, with arguably more overlap. Jewish culture in the region can be traced back to at least the 9th Century BC, with the literal Kingdom of Israel. So the argument of “Well who was there first?” does not necessarily favor the Palestinians over the Israelis.
This has always been happening though. It’s not like the Ottomans took over the region peacefully. It’s been conquered and re-conquered by Babylonians, Egyptians, Greeks, Romans…
One group took 2 years to organize an attack on civilians, the other didnt…
This was on a different level though. Taking civilian hostages? Launching rockets with the target being a music festival?
It’s not a religious conflict. It’s an imperialistic conflict.
I generally agree. It’s often used as yet another form of oppression.
But right now, capitalism and its byproducts of colonialism and imperialism are a bigger problem for a bigger number of people than religion.
The root for Palestine Israel conflict isn’t religious. Religions have cohabitatedthe region for centuries in relative peace.
If you just state it’s religious, you open up space for “Muslim bad”, or “Christian bad” arguments. Which lead to nonsense and prosecution to specific peoples
If you use imperialism concepts, everything fits well together, and it leads to structural criticism of capitalism, and prosecution (to use the same word) against oppressive ideas and power structures, not against specific peoples.
But I can agree that imperialistic forces oppress religions that are not the same as theirs, if that’s what you meant.
Because all things point to “capitalism bad” for the lemmy FOSS nerd social studies undergrad.
Borders are violence.
Even animals patrol and defend their territory. Why should human be any different? If anything else, borders are an improvement over constant skirmishes and raids where two different ethnic groups meet.
EDIT: Interesting how you completely ignored the “Borders are a solution to constant ethnic clashes” part of my comment
The animals argument is bad. We are animals and the idea is to refrain of our bad instincts in favour of the greater good most of the time.
That being said abolition of borders is a very bad idea, a very basic visit of human history will squash any misplaced idealism regarding that subject.
That also being said immigration is most of the time a good idea as long as you put a consideratr effort into integration for your newly minted citizens.
Now I realize most of those are opinions without substance, the idea is to realize where people push back and why before backing them up.
“animals do it why shouldn’t we” is one of the worst reasons to do something. Animals are literally dumber than us.
Animals kill and eat their young. They roll or eat shit. They rape. You sure that’s the argument you want to use here?
The reason ethnic clashes are happening in the first place, is because there was not enough intermingling between neighbors, in big part because people like you thought humans aren’t smarter then animals and should be separated.
Humans aren’t smarter than animals because we are animals. We’re also not smarter than non-human animals either, as evidenced by our self-destructive behavior.
