systemd is a FANTASTIC set of tools, well integrated into the environment, and allows powerful configurations to be set very easily. Anybody arguing for the “old ways” has never had to set up a complex network environment using an interfaces file and a million other configuration tools.
The debate isn’t even funny anymore, it ended completely IMO when Debian decided on systemd, despite heavy propaganda with wild promises about how amazing they planned to make upstart. Promises that were never gonna happen, and some of the problems they promised to solve, had been left unsolved by upstart developers for years. Some of them allegedly because they were basically impossible to solve in upstart, because the basic design concept is flawed, just like other init systems based on the System V legacy.
I have tried several times to find a convincing answer as to why systemd bad hur dur, but I could never find one that says precisely why. I’d love it if someone could ELI5 it for me.
What ive heard is the “linux philosophy” argument. Its just doing too many things.
this comment shows how the word of mouth actually distorted the argument
its not the linux philosophy but one sentence of the unix philosophy (linux is not unix)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_philosophy
Make each program do one thing well. To do a new job, build afresh rather than complicate old programs by adding new “features”
besides being over 40 years old at this point
fun fact the linux kernel would actually not really fit this since it is an monolithic kernel
It’s systemd or bust because it’s so much better than any other init system.
Also, your post glosses over the biggest issues people have with systemd. The lead developer was a complete fucking asshole and rubbed people the wrong way. Imo, that’s where most of the hate stems. The guy was a tool and the initial backlash spiraled from there.
But I guess being a jerk and being a sea-changing dev go hand-in-hand. Eg stallman, Torvalds, etc
Also, my favorite thing about the gnu diehards complaining that systemd does too much and doesn’t follow the unix principals… Emacs enters the chat. It also enters the email, text editor, ide, etc.
Thank you, that was an excellent reply. I vaguely knew there were arguments over systems, but had no idea of the details.
What you say about their overly large power, though: if they make a bad choice, and enough people agree it’s a bad choice, can’t a new project just fork systemd and take it in a good direction?
This is easily the most comprehensive and informative reply to the issue with systemd I’ve seen so far. Thank you for the response, I can see why their increasing dominance is alarming.
I’m certainly not at liberty to pass judgment on whether it deserves its current reputation, since I barely know enough to make it work to my needs. But I would be most interested to see how things play out.
I love how well received pipewire was/is compared to the drama systemd and Wayland got.
Don’t even mention anything about Nvidia. Basically it’s just a call for an infinite flamewar between everyone and one guy
Back before AMD Radeon Open Source drivers became good, the best options were widely considered to be Intel for Open Source that worked, or Nvidia for performance with proprietary drivers. AMD was basically considered the worst option you could choose.
Personally I have always used AMD anyway since 2005 on Linux, but that’s because I’m a somewhat extreme political user, and I don’t like Nvidia for multiple reasons. My wife however uses Nvidia, because she was less stubborn, and AMD worked poorly when she tried it.
IMO AMD is the way superior choice on Linux today.
Yeah because they refuse to work with the open source community lol. Don’t care how great their stuff is if they’re borderline openly hostile towards Linux.
I can’t tell if you’re saying Wayland + Nvidia is da bomb, or Wayland + Nvidia will fuck your system up.
Weirdly enough, I’ve never been happier with Linux since I discovered Wayland with Fedora. I’m one year on my Linux journey at this point, my desktop never felt so polished. It actually feels like a competitor to Windows and MacOS now (at least for me) and yes, I use NVIDIA under Wayland
