ACAB, especially that bastard relative of yours.
The capitalist state and it’s forces in the form of Police and Military primarily exist to protect the private property of the rich. All other functions are secondary.
Serious question, how do you suggest we enforce laws without police?
The way I understand ACAB is not to remove all cops, but reform the system fundamentally. It’s a flawed system encouraging bad behavior and silence.
The “easiest” (in terms of selling it to the public) solution would be to heavily increase training requirements. Two years should be the absolute minimum, with the heaviest focus being on de-escelation and how to actually help the community.
Going back to requiring police to actually live in the communities they police would go a long way as well
Any reasonable “small government” conservative should. The sad thing is there aren’t many of those left with any power now. There are mostly only big government regressives who grabbed the conservative flag and ran with it.
If the goal isn’t to remove “all cops”, isn’t it pretty counterproductive that the first two words in ACAB are “all cops”?
It’s perfectly possible to create a law enforcement arm of government that’s actually concerned with protecting vulnerable citizens, but that’s not what the institution of policing actually focuses on.
To suggest that we can’t have law enforcement without propping up a toxic system of professional predators is exactly the presumption they want you to make in order to preserve their jobs. We don’t need to capitulate to a lawless fraternity to enforce our laws, we can replace it with something that isn’t built on principles of oppression.
That said, their main job at the moment is to protect hoarders of wealth from the social consequences of wealth hoarding. Personally, I don’t see that as necessary.
You know, I hadn’t thought about it, but I guess being against police brutality must mean I think there shouldn’t be any law enforcement at all. Cause I certainly can’t imagine a world where there are police who uphold the law but don’t beat the shit out of people and kill them indiscriminately.
Your question is absurd. Pointing out that cops beat the shit out of people and kill them indiscriminately in no way presupposes that there should be no cops.
Well, if ACAB, then so are the ones that simply uphold the law without resorting to brutality. It’s not SCAB after all. So if that’s the idea, asking for a alternative solution to law enforcement does not seem that absurd to me.
ACAB is a critique of the policing system as a whole, not individuals.
Good individuals enforcing a bad system are still as bad as the systems they enforce.
Law enforcement should truly be built around the idea of protecting and serving the greater public, but at this time it’s really just legalized violence controlled by the rich, like a hit squad.
The cops are not inherently bad, it’s just the system currently encourages and supports bad ones while driving away good ones. Change the system, cops get less bad.
Defunding or otherwise reducing the number of police is just a temporary harm reduction measure, since in a lot of places things are actively worse WITH police (as they stand now) than they would be WITHOUT police. That’s not to say things would be great if we permanently abolish police. It’s just a choice between two evils and, crazy as it is, actual criminals are the lesser evil in many cases.
Ideally, we would have police, but an entirely different set of police with an entirely different structure supporting them.
For example, make “protect and serve” a job requirement instead of a slogan, end qualified immunity, get rid of grand juries for police, etc
It’s true. The good ones get purged and blacklisted, while the bad ones get hired at another station if they get fired for good cause. Just listen to the stories that the actual good cops tell when they’re forced out for actually being good.
The system can be fixed, but it would have to be remade from the ground up with a select group of trustworthy people who would have to be very scrupulous about background checks and creating a culture. We might be able to bring in outside consultants from places with better cops, like Europe or Canada.
For starters you don’t actually need to enforce law a lot of the time, it’s sufficient to simply verbally reprimand or do a number of other non-law-enforcement things to correct bad behaviour.
This is why german/nordic police are famous for how not terrible they are, they’re more likely to help you out rather than punish you.
German Police will still harass you (even physically) if a swearword aimed at them slips your mouth. And if you don’t look German or are a POC, mentally ill or are otherwise causing problems they are too incompetent to deal with, you are muuuuch more likely to get murdered by them.
I think what you maybe are referring to is the “Ordnungsamt” which is kind of like a community task force
German police will still put a boot on your neck if you dare engage in non-violent civil disobedience to protest the objective destruction of our environment for example
No, I really think you’ve seen too much unrealistic information. Or project American news onto Germany.
Nobody in Germany is likely to get murdered by police. Check the statistics. The numbers are small enough (around 10/year) that you can look up every case in a year. I won’t deny that the police got some big problems. But coming up with completely wrong arguments isn’t helping anything.
Restorative Justice is the best if not only way to reliably reduce crime, including that of the chronically abusive cops themselves.
I don’t believe this post is saying that we should fire all cops, and a good cop is a cop that is fired.
What it is saying is that good cops are often fired for speaking out against bad cops. There are many examples of whistleblower police officers being terminated.
What this meme is saying that to identify a cop, the good cops were fired, and the bad cops are beating people up.
It’s advocating for a shift in policing where the good cops and retained and model good behavior, where currently, the bad cops are the ones that are retained and model behavior
I would suggest a citizens militia made up of local residents, mostly tasked with keeping their community orderly. Not armed with guns but with Batons and Tasers for diffusing situations and self defence.
Serious deescalation and psychological training and only special units being allowed to bear arms which would only be used reactively.
ofc this would only work in a society which has alleviated social inequalities
In Germany we have something called “Ordnungsamt” (lit. meaning: Orderdepartment) imo smth like that should take over most tasks of current police and current police (in the way they are equipped) being reduced by a lot and used more rarely
So it’d still be their work? Wouldn’t you get the same form of power abuse even then?
A citizens militia could be a democratic instituion and be integrated in a form of council socialist democracy
Do cops even enforce shit? By the time you have to call em it’s too damn late. Not to mention so many stories of cops not doing shit when needed. Go ahead and report something stolen and see how useful they are. Ask the parents of that one Texas elementary school how useful their cops were and if they still have little Timmy around.
Honestly cops can replaced with self driving cars that roll around with dummies inside that pretend to be enforcing shit but do nothing but burn gas. Most people are civil if they think they might get arrested/pulled over. A criminal is gonna criminal. A cop has never saved anyone in realtime unless some dumbass decided to start shit right in front of one and well we can 2nd amendment for the rest.
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted, my local PD has several arrest warrants for a guy a block away from me and they refuse to go get him at his house, so they drive around hoping to get him while hes out. He simply drives or walks through the alleys in broad daylight and they never see him. this is only one example of all the nothing they do here.
That said, [the police’s] main job at the moment is to protect hoarders of wealth from the social consequences of wealth hoarding.
We are all wealth hoarders. What are the social consequences of wealth hoarding? Is it okay to steal? How much does a person have to have before it’s okay to steal? Most of the people of the world live on a couple of US dollars a day. Is it okay for them to steal your wallet when you have 40 dollars?
Sealioning (also sea-lioning and sea lioning) is a type of trolling or harassment that consists of pursuing people with relentless requests for evidence, often tangential or previously addressed, while maintaining a pretense of civility and sincerity (“I’m just trying to have a debate”), and feigning ignorance of the subject matter. It may take the form of “incessant, bad-faith invitations to engage in debate”, and has been likened to a denial-of-service attack targeted at human beings. The term originated with a 2014 strip of the webcomic Wondermark by David Malki, which The Independent called “the most apt description of Twitter you’ll ever see”.
As an aside, i still remember someone on reddit going off their shits accusing me of sealioning when they kept spewing out highly specific buzzwords and i kept very genuinely asking them what the everloving fuck they were on about.
Not to mention that accusatory shit gets…problematic with people who are ASD.
Either respond to the question or ‘nah bro’. Not every thing needs to be high dramatics.
If you have $40 to your name, the cops are just much more likely to beat you and take it, than they are to protect you from someone else taking it.
Cops don’t actually spend much time on solving crimes, they mostly spend their time ticketing and harassing the poor in favor of the rich.
Much more likely? What country are you talking about? Assuming we are talking about the United States, this is just not true.
The police are not that cartoonishly evil like most posters here seem to think they are.
Let me introduce you to asset forfeiture, which is a thing cops do to steal from people by claiming that the property or money was guilty of a crime. The owner isn’t actually allowed to argue in defense of their stuff, because the owner isn’t on trial, their stuff is.
If you’re poor and a minority, you have it much worse.
A quote from that last one;
Police seized as little as $25 in cash, a cologne gift set worth $20 and crutches.
Now, contrast that to this little article that says police solve about 2% of all major crime, and you see the reality of American policing.
They rob the poor and then ignore crime in favor of harassing the poor a bit more. So yes, if you only have $40 to your name, cops will not protect your money, they’re more likely to take it from you.
There’s a difference between saving money so you can live and hoarding it. It’s fine to want to have a secure future for yourself and to be able to help the people you care about. If you have so much money that you could trivially buy people out of poverty, but you don’t because you’d rather have seven yachts and a bigger bank account, we have a problem.
The social consequences of wealth hoarding have traditionally been decapitation once they actually catch up. I imagine it’s probably a little less extreme in this day and age, but we won’t really know that until the hoarders push things beyond the tolerance of the average person.
There’s a difference between saving money so you can live and hoarding it.
Okay, what’s the difference? 100,000? 500,000? 5,000,000?
f you have so much money that you could trivially buy people out of poverty, but you don’t because you’d rather have seven yachts and a bigger bank account, we have a problem.
Who has seven yachts? Most wealthy people invest their money. The only reason you know the names of billionaires is that Forbes magazine publishes their names. You have no idea who all the millionaires are and what they do with their money.
If we’re speaking of social consequences and eliminating people, it makes more sense for the populace to go after crooked politicians and judges than rich people. Just saying.
Ah, yes, the police of the communist Soviet Union were certainly a model of how law enforcement should be done.
Lenin loses me with his Dictatorship of the Proletariat. Personally, I think that demonstrating such lack of faith in humanity and in the power of workers to take things into their own hands is fundamentally at odds with the sort of organically arising communist-style models Marx and Engels are talking about.
