Even if you think what you would say is obvious, please add. This is genuinely something I think makes sense regarding local bus routes given the longevity of light rail and how infrequently routes change, but I also suffer from confirmation bias, so I’m hoping for reasons this would be a terrible idea but obviously would prefer reasons it would be an even more amazing idea than I thought.
Light rail/trams are better especially for avenues etc. But busses are more flexible, and you usually need a combination of both for best results
This.
I think of buses as the caterpillar to a tram’s butterfly.
You can start with a comprehensive bus network, and as a particular route stabilizes and the bus starts struggling to meet throughput needs, that is an indicator that a tram may be worthwhile.
Starting w/ a tram line is a pretty big financial bet that it will be useful/needed, as once you build it, you’re locked-in to that specific route.
Buses for longer journeys make sense. We have a bunch of buses in London that run from the city centre out towards the green belt. Buses for those especially long journeys makes sense.
Why not just build a train for long journies? Cheaper over time, more capacity, and reduces road dependency.
Buses are awful for long journeys. Trams for longer journeys make sense. You need the buses to get you to the tram stop.
Pretty much the point of trams are that they’re in populated areas, are in walking distance, and have many stops. They’re local public transport.
In cities they’re equivalent to buses, and in many countries existing trams where replaced by bus routes starting in the 1960s.
If you need longer and faster transport, metro and light rail are the modes to bring people to and around town.
Could a tram do Trafalgar Square to Leyton Bakers Arms? I feel like it would leave a lot of people without public transport options.
The big benefit of light rail is you can make trains longer than buses, and fit more people. So if your system has outgrown buses, then you should move to rail.
But transit systems should always be trying to maximize frequency, because the more frequently a train or bus comes, the more convenient it is for riders. So if a bus fits 30 people and a train fits 90 and you’re trying to make a decision between providing a bus service every 10 minutes or a train service every 30 minutes, the bus service is the better option.
Different modes work best for different passenger demands, and you should use the right one for the number of passengers you’ve got. Overbuilding is expensive, and if you spend too much building out a network and the don’t have enough for operating expenses then you’ve got to reduce service levels.
Most tram systems aim for 5 - 7.5 minute frequency on trunk lines during peak hours. Usually induced demand works here if it’s more convenient than sitting in a car. Busses quite often are a little unreliable when it comes to any kind of attempts to schedule even with dedicated lanes, since they spend more time at the stops loading and unloading passengers and you need more of them compared to trams. Then there’s an argument to be made about public mass transportation: It should provide a service that is good for the city and the people and in a well designed system subsidies aren’t going to waste even if you’re unable to measure any profit. Ridership and travel patterns matter the most. Not all rail is equal either. The available options are from cheap (which is not same as bad) to expensive: from tram systems on street level to “heavy” rail in tunnels. The tram is very versatile and often the most affordable way of providing reliable service when combined with busses on lines where the demand is really low. If you need a bus more often than once every ten minutes and/or they’re packed to the brim during rush hours you probably should think about ditching the fears of “overbuilding” and start planning for more capacity and frequency with a tram line. In your country this might be different but in most developed countries the drivers are not unsignificant expense and trams reduce the amount of drivers needed, they have lower power consumption compared to buses and are mostly more reliable than buses. Also the ridership usually prefer a tram if the option is provided and it’s not super slow (which is rare). Then again, if it’s built in the right place -> induced demand.
There’s pros and cons of buses vs trams.
The pros that I’d slate for trams do include a better ride, more throughput (carries more people), wholly electric, are more durable than busses, and very quiet in general. People in this thread have noted most of these already, but the one that I feel is very overlooked is that they’re a commitment by the city along their routes. Many people will note that busses have advantages because their routes are easier to change. While true, I feel it’s actually worth considering that this is also a negative from the perspective of anyone who wants to invest in property that relies upon the bus route. If you can’t trust that the city won’t just up and move the bus stop away from your shop or apartment complex, you’ll be more reluctant to invest in the location. Trams are indeed much harder to change, but that’s actually a good thing from the perspective of investors. If I’m going to invest millions of dollars in an apartment complex, would I rather do it next to a bus stop that might not be there next year, or a tram stop that’s really hard to move away?
Another advantage is how well the tram integrates with pedestrians. Busses are only as accurate as the driver. As a pedestrian, I have to pay attention to every bus just as I would cars on the road. They’re dangerous to be around. Trams are much more predictable (see: rails) so they can be used in/around public squares, markets, and along walkways with more safety for the people walking nearby. The rails themselves also show you where the transit is. Bus routes are invisible except for the stops and when you see the busses go by. When I’m walking in a city that has railed transit, I love seeing the rails because I know that I likely follow them to the next stop, and that by stops there will be shops, stores, and interesting places. They’re a guide to the best places in the city even if I can’t see the tram at that exact moment.
Trams are also usually larger inside. There’s more room for wheelchairs, bicycles, and other mobility aids. They’re a better conveyance for people who need the room. Those same people also need to pick where they live carefully so that their transit won’t up and change on them. Having the bus stop move a block away could be a huge hurdle for their daily mobility needs.
Railed transit provides a permanency and a more equitable transit solution for a city. It’s not the right solution in every instance, but as a city grows it needs to start investing in railed transit. Those rails provide the bones of where growth will centralize around giving the city focus and then identity as neighborhoods grow around tram/light rail stops. There’s a power to railed transit that busses just don’t provide in their stability, visibility, and statement of commitment to the longevity that a city should be investing in.
Also, look up grassy tram lines. That’s peak urbanism!
I’d never heard of grassy tramlines, I love them! I’ve never seen any anywhere, and I’ve been all over Europe, they are either quite rare, or I haven’t been paying attention.
We have some small sections of grassy tram lines in Melbourne (Australia) but I wish we had more.
One problem with grassy lines is that when you need to temporarily use replacement buses (like in cases of issues with the electricity or maintenance, etc.) they can’t drive on the lines and have to take the regular roads with the cars.
At the moment one tram line in my city has been interrupted for a few weeks and that’s how I noticed that the grassy line was making things more complicated for the buses that are used instead.
I think that’s one reason why most cities only put a few sections with grass.
I mostly agree with you that trams are generally better, but we need to point out that bus stations are not placed randomly on the map. If an appartment complex gets build somewhere, a bus station will also appear next to it, probably faster than rail transport (assuming whichever organism in charge is competent, and that there is discussion between them and the users). Busses are better suited places with less trafic and fast to put in place. Trams are good long term and better for pedestrians. (and a lot cooler and more comforable)
Light rail is infinitely more expensive to construct and it only takes one delay/accident and all subsequent trains after cause a log jam…vs a bus which can route around it.
A better solution uses corridors dedicated to buses that are electric powered.
Something like this was done in Colombia with these routes being connected by ground hubs, similar to subway stations.
That’s like saying a ship is more expensive than a car. It depends.
A tram is not „infinitely“ (what absurd statement is that anyway) more expensive than a bus.
Construction cost is not everything, and they’re not even that much higher, you also need to consider service life (much longer with trains), energy cost per passenger mile (much lower with trains thanks to the lower resistance), etc.
What is best is always depending on the specific circumstances.
The biggest limitation of buses is capacity, and a highly used tram is cheaper per passenger mile than a bus. Try replacing the S-Bahn in Berlin with BRT, see how far that gets you. You’d probably need to bulldoze a new highway… speaking of which:
Germany is actually hellbent on building a highway right through its capital Berlin, which currently clocks in at 700 milion € for 3.2 km. I expect the whole thing to end at ~2 bn € for ~7 km.
So I think the costs of public transport are really not the issue people should be focusing on.
You wouldn’t even have to go for the “replacing the S-Bahn” to show how ludicrous a BRT is as a suggestion, unless you’re not paying the constructors and drivers a living wage, which is why it makes sense in say Colombia and not in Germany…just think about replacing the M-lines of Berlin tramways with a BRT. It would have to be couple meters wider, would be terribly unreliable and inefficient, not to speak of noisy and bumpy. Now who would want to have that? Not to mention how much the upkeep of two lanes of dedicated BRT costs vs. maintenance of steel on steel rails and catenary. (Most of the time you’d find the latter to be cheaper.) In Helsinki, Finland we are currently waiting for a new tram/light rail option to replace a bus service that should have been a modern tram/light rail line in the first place: https://raidejokeri.info/en/ In the neighbour municipality Vantaa some parties were trying to push for a BRT option but the independent research suggested light rail/tram option to be the best and this is what was chosen: https://www.vantaa.fi/en/housing-and-environment/traffic-and-transport/vantaa-light-rail (they call it light rail but in some ways it’s also reasonable to call it a tram)
Electric busses are actually a lot more complex logistically than electric trains. With a train, you just need a bunch of big-ass transformers and overhead wires. Expensive to install, but very reliable and relatively low maintenance over many years.
Batteries on the other hand are heavy, relatively fragile, degrade quickly, and very expensive. With a 100KWh EV, about 1/3 of the total cost is the battery, so it would likewise increase the cost of a bus.
Charging is another problem, instead of the whole system using energy real-time, you now need a distribution system that can take hundreds of busses at night and charge them all back up, requiring a massive amount of power in a somewhat short time. While it’s nice that energy is generally cheaper at night, you still need the infrastructure that can take that load.
So, it’s not to say that there’s no place for them, just that our main focus needs to be on rail in most places. There are lots of low-density places with cheap power and temperate weather that absolutely need BEV busses, but a lot more with challenging weather, older grids, and medium density that are a better fit for rail.
IMO electric busses needs to have a trolley bus infrastructure on some route so the bus is recharged during the day. Won’t cover 100% of the energy needs, but will spread out the charging time.
I feel like I remember reading about tests on a roadway that could charge your car as you drive on it, like a qi charger. If that gets hammered out, dedicated bus lanes with the charging tech would limit the cost to implement to one lane while busses still have the freedom to reroute if needed.
Trolley buses do exist…
Yes, we certainly can route around it, but having lived in London for most of my life, I can tell you that we seldom route around it. However given the capacity that light railway how. If we keep the vehicles moving on the main arteries, we can move more people alleviating the frustration.
This is a common misbelief. Trams and light rail usually have points where the units can go around if one unit has derailed, unless the unit has tipped over, which in itself is very very rare. Good planning is crucial. “A better solution uses corridors dedicated to buses that are electric powered.” Nope, nope, nope. You have to present arguments to this claim, maybe then I can be bothered to counterargument such nonsense.
Probably biassed as I’m a bus driver but the city I’m in has a tram and it’s fantastic until one gets blocked or broken. Benefit of busses is they can detour if needed, and if one breaks it doesn’t (always) block the entire route
edit: extra annoying when they break down and I have to carry a tram load of passengers on one double decker bus
It’s also very easy to reconfigure bus routes, just slap some new paint on the road.
