Former President Trump’s legal team suggested Tuesday that even a president directing SEAL Team Six to kill a political opponent would be an action barred from prosecution given a former executive’s broad immunity to criminal prosecution.
The hypothetical was presented to Trump attorney John Sauer who answered with a “qualified yes” that a former president would be immune from prosecution on that matter or even on selling pardons.
Sauer later argued the threat of prosecution could have a chilling effect on future presidents’ decisions, saying they would need to look over their shoulder and ask, “Am I going to jail for this?” when making controversial decisions.
That’s exactly the fucking point, you chode! The president should be weighing that consequence.
Reminds me of this:
My suggestion was quite simple: Put that needed code number [to launch a nuclear weapon] in a little capsule, and then implant that capsule right next to the heart of a volunteer. The volunteer would carry with him a big, heavy butcher knife as he accompanied the President. If ever the President wanted to fire nuclear weapons, the only way he could do so would be for him first, with his own hands, to kill one human being. The President says, “George, I’m sorry but tens of millions must die.” He has to look at someone and realize what death is—what an innocent death is. Blood on the White House carpet. It’s reality brought home.
When I suggested this to friends in the Pentagon they said, “My God, that’s terrible. Having to kill someone would distort the President’s judgment. He might never push the button.”
— Roger Fisher, Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, March 1981
To be fair, the supreme court has made the same argument when granting themselves absolute immunity. But it was just as stupid then (and still theoretically only applies when executing their job).
“We could never do anything if we had to worry about lawsuits all the time” yes, that’s how life works for everyone who makes decisions.
I saw that line, buried at the end of the article, and shouted at the screen, “Yeah, you fuckin’ should!” I want to live in the world where the president is terrified of the consequences of his or her actions.
I like this. It shows how dumb Republicans are.
They think criminals are logical people who weigh the consequences carefully and then decide to crime or not to crime.
I agree this is the point of a lot of our crime and punishment policy, but science has known for about fifty years that it isn’t true.
Trump argue Biden should assassinate him
Congress would impeach Biden SO FAST so he could then be prosecuted.
… Unless Biden also made it impossible for Congress to meet to impeach him. Which is obviously against the Constitution, but there’s nothing to be done about it as long as Congress can’t impeach him.
Checkmate, fascists.
… wait
No, see if Biden wants to be impeachment proof, he just needs to arrange for a “group trip” for all Congressional Republicans to “a nice farm upstate.” He can be generous and include tickets for the conservative Supreme Court justices.
Biden would never do this and I wouldn’t want him to, but Trump is arguing that this would be 100% legal.
Also if assassination of a political rival is legal unless the congress votes to impeach, what prevents the president from also assassinating a few congressmen in order to not get impeached ?
Yep. All his political rivals. What an insane thing to say when you aren’t president.
They are making this argument, knowing the logical consequences. They are also counting on Biden being an actual human being instead of the steaming pile their client is.
They are also praying to their god that the Appellate Court has no knowledge of the “color of office” argument. Assassinations of US citizens is most definitely beyond the scope of presidential duties, and to accept otherwise is to accept that the president is a king.
I agree completely… that said, not to be that guy, but didn’t Obama drone strike one or two American citizens while in power?
He killed four. Three were accidental, one was a literal terrorist helping to plan attacks on American targets. None were on American soil.
I’m undecided if the terrorist one deserves the rights awarded by the fifth amendment, but as for the other three, it’s not like he went out of his way to target them.
Trump’s lawyers, on the other hand, are essentially arguing that the president can do what he wants to whomever he wants, even on American soil. It’s like it’s straight from Putin’s mouth.
I often wonder if Trump’s counsel is undermining him on purpose, or just going with the hand they were played.
They could lose their licenses for undermining their client. It’s more likely that it’s what it looks like on the tin: incompetence and evil.
I imagine someone might think the sacrifice worth it. To give up your career in order to ostensibly save the Republic?
They’re trying to delay the trials until after the election hoping he will win and just pardon himself.
And honestly, it’s not the Jan 6th Trial they’re really worried about - it’s the documents case. They have so, so much evidence that he knowingly, intentionally lied about having documents and tried hiding them from the government. There’s absolutely no deniability there.
If he loses in November he’s toast, and they all know it.
And many of the document crimes occured after he left office. So they don’t have even have these bull crap presidential immunity arguments.
“Former presidents are also immune from any prosecution and allowed to carry out assassinations of political rivals after leaving office”
- Trump’s lawyers, probably
Trump doesn’t pay his lawyers. These are the best lawyers he could get because of it. They aren’t undermining him when they’re so stupid that they don’t realize they’re never getting paid because they’re working for a guy who is famous for never paying bills.
I just don’t understand this. I mean, imagine being a fucking billionaire and under this much heat, and not choosing to pay for the best lawyers money can buy. I know the guy isn’t smart, but seriously, is he really that stupid?? Am I missing something?
Okay, Joe. You know what to do.
This is a fucking wild comment. I couldn’t have imagined this being the discourse we have as politically acceptable on either side. We are low-key driving off the cliff and going into civil war territory and I’m seeing it everywhere.
Do you really think I was serious when I suggested that Joe Biden go kill Trump? What’s he going to do, talk him to death?
Don’t know but I can’t recall a time where I was commenting online that I wanted someone to be assassinated. It’s just weird to joke about but it’s just so common now.
Ask him if that means Biden can assassinate Trump. Then remind him of the concept of estoppel. Then Biden comes to their first presidential debate and places a .44 Magnum handgun on the podium, to see if Trump runs away like the little bitch he is.
yeah, most devils have fire and poison immunity. you’re gonna need a silver weapon or something that does holy damage
A .44 is excessive; Biden might not be strong enough to fire it safely.
A .357 would do.
wasnt the hypothetical along the lines of the president ordering a military unit to assassinate a rival? If one wanted to really invoke that, Biden wouldnt need to fire a gun at all, just have some tough looking and visibly armed soldier stand just offstage and stare menacingly
Not even a visible person, just a couple of red laser pointers aimed from a secure location.
Or they could have the debate on the middle of 5th Avenue in NYC and Biden could just make the finger guns at Trump every time Trump is speaking.
That doesn’t quite work.
Trump’s lawyers argument is that presidents are immune from criminal prosecution on any official act, even if that official act is illegal or unconstitutional; that the only remedy is impeachment.
The judge brought up ordering seal team 6 to assinate a rival as an example of an obviously illegal official act. Trump’s lawyers response was “obviously he’d be impeached, but yeah, I guess if he weren’t he’d be immune from prosecution”.
Shooting Trump at the debate would be a prosecutable private action, according to Trump’s lawyer. What Biden would have to do is to tell seal team 6 “If Trump gets on this stage, shoot him”.
