Tankies in tears over this, they can’t handle the fact that they have to vote for Biden lmao
Tankies don’t know their own history. Stalin helped to found Israel, expecting it to be socialist. USSR was the first to recognise it de jure and Czechoslovakia supplied it with weapons.
Later, when Israel sided with the west, USSR started a policy of anti-zionism, restricted rights of Jewish people and supplied weapons to Israel’s enemies.
Man, if only they hadn’t slaughtered and raped a bunch of civilians they might not have an entire army bearing down on them
Man, if only Israel hadn’t been committing ethnic cleansing and operating the world’s largest open air prison for decades, they might not have had that attack committed against them. Apparently you think this gives Israel license to commit genocide, even though the number of Israelis who died on October 7th is a fraction of the number of Palestinians killed up to that point. Now with Israel’s ramped up campaign of genocide that you love so much, the number of Palestinians dead even further eclipse those of Israelis to a much higher degree. Tell me, how many Palestinians have to die to quench your bloodlust? How many of those 25,000+ Palestinians that have died since October 7th deserved to die because Hamas did an attack, or does only October 7th count for some reason?
No one has to vote for Genocide Joe. Imagine calling people tankies while living in the most authoritarian country on earth.
All leftists are in tears, Biden is a center-right Capitalist. Leftists should vote for Biden, but they can understandably be upset that they have to vote for a Neoliberal just to prevent a fascist, while liberals and fascists get to gleefully trot to the ballot box and vote for someone that actually represents their views.
You want leftists to side with you happily? Maybe try appealing to leftists, instead of running on the basis of not being a fascist.
That’s what exactly no theory does to someone.
Neoliberalism leads to and enables fascism down the road, but itself is not fascism. Neoliberalism is letting Capitalism loose, which will result in Capitalists gaining power and creating an absolute bourgeois state to oppress the Workers, typically by providing an “enemy” as a response to increasing disparity and a slipping of the grasp of Capital.
Fascism is a response to Neoliberalism, but is not the same, and in the US election the Neoliberal party and the fascist party vary significantly when it comes to social issues. Violence against minority populations is vastly increased under republican governance, and those I love are not privledged enough to not be in danger.
I mean yeah. That’s exactly it. One party is running on not changing anything in particular but keeping everyone exactly where they are, and the other is running on the idea of hurting people and will actually do it with power.
People don’t like to feel trapped in a bad situation even if others feel great about being trapped in a good one. The feeling of being unable to do anything or even trying to do anything will so much more disenfranchise the vote base than an Internet comment will but it’s definitely compounding.
But when you have a party run on a promise and meet their goals then it looks appealing and people will think they can sand off the rough edges cause at least there is movement, ignoring that the rough edges are what grabs more angry people.
I actually don’t see this election going well without Biden slamming into the fight like a WWE star trying to be a fan favorite and actually getting a win. Or standing up at least and taking the hits to the face to prove they care. Apathy and comfort, the plagues of the Democrats right now.
Out of the people in this thread who are complaining about Biden and the Democrats, how many of them have joined the party, organized, and have pushed to make changes from inside the party?
You know the answer, it’s none of them. Because most of them are here to make sure Trump wins, and the rest are those who are susceptible to that type of propaganda.
Meanwhile, Democrats push for a two-state solution: https://www.politico.com/live-updates/2024/01/24/congress/reasserting-the-two-state-solution-00137623
Republicans push for genocide:https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/nov/10/florida-republican-michelle-salzman-palestine
Leftists should vote for Biden
We’re headed for another 2000 election. A handful of campaign flaks are going to Brooks Brothers Riot a few counties in a red state with the blessing of a governor hostile to the very idea of democratic governance. Biden is going to meekly surrender after the election is straight up stolen on national television by far-right courts. And then the national media is going to find the real villain - not the thugs terrorizing polling places nationwide, not the nerds hemming and hawing about Rule of Law while the books are rewritten under their noses, not the national media fabricating bullshit smears 24/7 to keep the race up as a spectacle - but a dorky little 3rd party environmentalist nerd who dared to suggest that better things are possible.
Biden will shit the bed and Trump will run out the back door with the mattress, while every screaming Twitter avi will point the finger at this cycle’s Ralph Nader.
I’d love to make a glib analogy like ‘my toast got burnt so I burned my house down and most of the neighbourhood’ but the literal fact that so many people are suffering makes that sort of thing rather tasteless.
I don’t think Biden is “Genocide Joe”. That’s ridiculous hyperbole which doesn’t help. We (the public) don’t know what kind of pressure is being levered in the background to end all the horrors of this situation.
People not voting Dem merely because of difficult historical relationships with Israel are dangerously deluded.
He went around Congress to give them weapons. That’s pretty much all I have to know. Without threatening actual leverage, and that’s basically the only leverage they have, his words mean nothing. Batman Begins has a good lesson about that. I just wish there was a non-genocide *choice. What a cool democracy for a cool country.
Could focus on working on congressional campaign advocacy disallowing the President from near unlimited War Reserve Stockpile Allies – Israel (WRSA-I). Republicans are on pretending to be Anti-War doves yet all these protest are alienating them with their disgusting support for Hamass & antisemitic Houthis as well as being a nuisance to the public. Pretty sure there are a lot of people that would agree with this if they weren’t being interrupted in traffic picking up their family or trying to get to work on time.
The post has a point. Trump cut funding to UNRWA opposes Two-State unlike Biden and Trump has mentioned deporting any immigrant that doesn’t support Israel. Not to mention Democrats provided a slew of “young” candidates in 2020 yet most of the “left” went for an older candidate Bernie Sanders that now agrees with President Biden & that recognizes Ceasefires not offered by Hamas are a joke. So nobody to blame but themselves for the consolidation of one of the most Progressives Presidents in the modern era.
Don’t get mad when your fellow advocates refuse or reject to participate in Democracy. Israel & Palestine is a complex issue that many of you were asleep at the wheel on. I tried to bring up the matter up for a vote for amending our party platform at our State Democrat convention this summer because polling showed Democrats supported Palestinians more than Israel but it was the “Leftist” members that voted down claiming it wasn’t time to discuss it.
You were are missing in action with Ukraine as Russia tries to genocide them again. Hard to take you all serious especially when its fickle. President Biden is fighting to aid to Gaza as well as reduce the severity of fighting & working to release hostages that is great while wanting to support helping Ukraine. We are also trying to keep Africa safe & access to shipping food to them while antisemitic Houthis attack ships indiscriminately.
Wtf are you talking about? I argue to defend Ukraine all the time and donated money to them. You don’t know me.
That doesn’t mean Israel is not doing a genocide. In fact, if you think Russia is then there’s no way you don’t realize Israel is, or you’re being a hypocrite. The difference is the US was helping Ukraine in this scenario so I don’t need to advocate for them as much as the Palestinians, who currently desperately need our help.
And just because Trump is bad, doesn’t eliminate my point. In fact, it emphasizes it: I can’t choose a President who doesn’t like genocide right now. That sucks.
I do like the idea of disallowing the President from near unlimited War Reserve Stock Piles, though. That is a good point.
I will hold my nose and vote against a dictatorship but I do understand why people are so FUCKING ANGRY with the DNC for not even trying to find someone who is representative of the Democratic voters. They haven’t done so for the last decades and it is getting to point where something serious needs to be done about it. As in, make it clear to those ‘in power’ that we will make their lives a living hell if they continue to ignore the people.
It’s more than insulting. It’s disgusting behavior by people who know they can do whatever the fuck they want and no one can say or do anything about it because TRUUUMP!! It’s a fucking joke. It’s a disgrace to democracy and I will never again vote for Democrats.
This country is in fucking shambles.
Biden won the primary by millions and millions of votes, will easily do so again this year, and his policies are (and always have been) square in the middle of the Democratic mainstream. Say what you want about him but he’s clearly representative of Democratic voters.
That “square in the middle” skews white and middle class.
I also think you underestimate the number of people who voted for him purely because he isn’t Trump in 2020.
I will hold my nose and vote against a dictatorship but
nd I will never again vote for Democrats.
so which is it?
It’s really not that hard to understand. I will vote this time, to prevent trump. Then I will ensure that there is another choice the next time. In any way I can.
Well, for me I actually quite like Biden. His Israel stance and protectionist economic policies are largely the only real policy positions he has that I disagree with him on, and he has done an exceptional job of accomplishing his stated policy goals within an extremely difficult and toxic political environment.
Here’s some food for thought: The last time the democrats had a solid hold on the federal govt with a filibuster proof majority in congress, we got the affordable care act. Ever since that term, the dems have been hamstrung by the GOP and rogue DINOs like Manchin and Sinema.
I don’t think there’s any “controlled opposition” conspiracy. If there’s a group to blame here the most, it’s the American media for pretending that the reason dems don’t get anything done is anything other than obstructionism and “both sides are bad hurr durr” rhetoric.
The last time the democrats had a solid hold on the federal govt with a filibuster proof majority in congress, we got the affordable care act.
A giveaway to corporate America and they arrogantly decided not to codify Roe v. Wade. And don’t forget, this was right after the financial crash and not one person from Wall Street went to jail over any of that shit.
I’m not claiming there is a secret cabal of evil doers conspiring to ruin everything. But the interests of the rich all align and so they are all largely working towards the same thing. Having money in politics corrupts every single person in it, though to varying degrees. Both sides are very clearly bad. But also very clearly not to the same degree. I agree that Biden has done a lot that is good. But his whole platform is attempting to maintain status quo and while I haven’t mentioned this before, my main concern is climate change.
Climate change is going to FUCK everyone. It is already and there is virtually no time to daudle about with half measures and false promises. There have been policies that claim to help and may even attempt to in good faith but they are consistently coopted or corrupted by lobbiests before being implemented or circumvented after. There needs to be strong, decisive action taken to reign in carbon emissions and not just do carbon offsets because carbon offsets are never going to solve this problem. All they do is delay actual action. The main reason I am so fucking angry with Biden is because he’s fucking ancient and simply doesn’t feel the same urgency as someone who will actually live with the consequences of the recklessness and stupidity of fossil fuels companies.
Everything he has tried to do with regards to this only ends up enriching companies further or passing the blame off to the poor of the country who have no other options than to use fossile fuels. I want someone who will take these oil oligarchs (Oiligarchs is something I saw once and it made me chuckle) to task and actually reign in their insane greed and violence against the natural world. He would and could never even dream of actually doing so. No one the DNC would ever allow to be the candidate would.
There is literally no time left to enact action but here we are twiddling our thumbs while Republicans debate whether Texas should secede for some insane reason. It’s all distraction. I’m pissed the fuck off at it all and the ineffectiveness of liberal policy. They are all meek cowards who only exist to lose against the Republicans and then shrug and claim "well at least we tried. :( "
We have more power to select our democratic candidate than you might think. The primaries in 2020 were our opportunity to select our democratic candidate. Far less people vote in primaries than they do in the general election. Biden won the primaries, so he got the Democratic nomination. If more people voted for primaries we could have a more progressive president. It just turns out that a smaller subset of our population gets to pick the Democratic nominee
You say that as though the entirety of the DNC leadership didn’t unite against Bernie Sanders when he was the clear front runner over Hillary. And again, in 2020. I agree, more people need to vote in the primaries. But there is clearly meddling and coercion happening behind the scenes to ensure an appropriately corporate candidate is selected.
Yeah I know. I really do. Not excusing it all but progressive policy is hamstrung by all the insane compromise that has to be made. Most of it due to the machinations of both external meddling by countries like Russia, and a (metaphorical) handful of rich people polluting the public discourse with utter nonsense.
They have the media sewn up to spew garbage, and are destroying the education systems to weaken any intellectual resistance.
You’re completely missing the point that leftists are making if you compare voting for yet another liberal Capitalist as “burnt toast,” it’s closer to your house being on fire under Biden or your neighborhood under Trump. Neither is good, both are bad, Biden isn’t just an inconvenience unless you’re privledged enough that you’re fine with the Neoliberal status quo.
Will I be voting for Biden? Absolutely. Should I be told to stop whining about how he is a generic, lukewarm Capitalist perpetuating genocide? No.
Look I get the anger. As someone who who would love to see a radically more progressive US government I’m bummed that it’s not.
Please remember who the real enemy is in the situation; the hidden money and influence behind the regressive forces in US politics, currently exhibiting as ‘MAGA’ and other symptoms.
I would go so far as to say that those influences could be labelled as terrorists. Financial-Political terrorists causing chaos in the system.
How come we don’t talk about “Genocide Trump” more, this close to the election? I think the words “Genocide Trump” should be at least as important to hear online this close to the election. What about “Genocide Trump”, what do you think, do you think “Genocide Trump” should be at least or at least not less popular than your alternative?
If they were exerting pressure then Netanyahu would have complained to Congress, like he did with Bush and Obama. Cutting off arms shipments is exerting pressure. Removing the UN block is exerting pressure.
Writing mean words in secret is nothing.
I’m convinced if it wasn’t the conflict in Palestine it would be some other issue that would prevent them from being able to “morally” support Biden.
Yes the conflict in Palestine is terrible, yes there are atrocities occuring, no I don’t have any of the solutions.
There seem to be a subset of people that only want to see the negative in every aspect of life and this carries over to politicians/politics in general. The grass is forever more green elsewhere.
I recently asked a friend trapped in this bubble if they had seen the new Mario movie, as I attempt to avoid politics with them at this point in time, and I received the answer, “No, fuck Chris Pratt.” I didn’t bother asking why, but it seems that nearly ever aspect of life, except the ones they choose to conveniently ignore is reason for social outrage and some how it is “Biden’s Fault,” with complete disregard to what the alternative looks like.
But 3rd parties!!! Oh yes, because statistically splitting your vote between the only two groups with a chance of being elected to office is the “moral solution.”
I don’t ever want to hear about “harm reduction” from them again, when their “moral” decision results in women’s healthcare being a literal afterthought and rights for a variety of marginalized communities being stripped away. 1,500 people a week are still dying from COVID in the U.S., but hey, let’s help elect the party that wants to continue erroding any remaining social safety nets, because you know, people who get sick don’t matter as much as this months zeitgeist of social outrage.
That was such a a wandering comment that idk how to respond, aside from: there are plenty of reasons why Biden is not as progressive as the world is moving. The way he handled Ukraine and Russia was amazing. He just backed the “Russia” in the Israeli/Palestine version. And I personally don’t like that. And if I can’t voice my displeasure with an elected official, then what are we doing here?
No one says you can’t vote, or think how you want to think, by all means this is a free country.
The issue I run into is that everyone is being purity tested to an extent that no individual who is at least somewhat tolerable to much of the political middle in the U.S., is acceptable to a specific subset of people who are constantly outraged by something.
Many of these same people complain endlessly about many of the issues a Trump presidency is going to greatly exacerbate, and don’t seem to understand, none of us get what we want, but helping to elect him by not voting for the only real alternative seems insanely illogical in my mind. Much like the post states.
It makes no sense to me, “this person is going to burn everything down, but I’m not going to support the only alternative who does things that aren’t nearly as bad…”
I feel like these “people” in your examples are simply scarecrows in your head.
You’re running full on through a straw man argument, dude.
You can voice your displeasure while also making sure the world slides a little more slowly down the shithole (and potentionally has a chance to crawl back out). Voting for the president is important, but it’s far from the only thing that is. Hedging everything you believe in on a single office is far more damaging than a single vote for Biden could ever be.
We’ve been living through at least 40+ years of “Vote for 20% more evil instead of 40% more evil” and wouldn’t you know it we’re at a substantial higher level of evil.
Everyone loves screeching about leftists/3rd party types being silly stupid babies, but yall are the ones who keep telling us the only way to less evil is by adding more evil. 🤷
We’re at least trying. If everyone who was a little piss baby whenever third parties came up voted for one we’d have a few by now.
Because we all know you’re not asking why you can’t criticise him, you’re asking why you’re not allowed to keep calling yourself our ally at pride when you use this as an excuse to not vote for him.
I was having the same conversation with people in 2016. In fact, for every election since 2000. Yes democrats often suck. But at least they believe in consensus based governance and the rule of law. The modern GOP (since the civil rights era) has been firmly authoritarian and anti-democratic. Unfortunately your choices are between “lackluster” and “truly horrifying.” Changing that will take a generation but if you don’t participate now and vote against the GOP, things will be far worse far more quickly than if Democrats just disappoint you.
Very much how I feel. One path gives us the opportunity to improve our situation eventually, the other wishes to burn it all down and create a religious dictatorship, or whatever the hell you’d call the Trump/MAGA/right wing of the U.S.’ ideal version of government.
Some people can’t separate the ideal from the actual. Yeah the process sucks and we should demand better. Yeah we should demonstrate, protest, and riot. But we still have to fucking vote, and at the end of the day we have to win. In politics, you can’t play if you don’t win.
They were trying to hammer railroad strike & the train derailment before. Funny most of them are rose twitter & DSA types that are facing a budget shortfall & are demanding that the Union workers they have on staff voluntarily resign so they don’t have to pay benefits or negotiate with them.
Re: Chris Pratt He’s a member of an anti-LGBT church and has tried to deny that his church is anti-LGBT. (Chad Veach is the pastor)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chad_Veach#Controversy
Edit: oops, misphrased this
The fact that those are your choices should be enough to alert you to the reality - that voting is a charade to make you feel “heard” and to keep you from turning on your overlords, who will continue to wage war for profit (be it on Palestine or on their own poor and marginalised) no matter what.
Sadly the propaganda is so strong that most people can’t see beyond the pretend field laid out in front of them and the “blue vs red” mentality that is enforced along with it, so focused on this artificial division that they don’t see that the real “teams” are society and those who exploit it for profit and power (and who control the media and the education system, ensuring you’re indoctrinated this way from birth).
By all means, vote for the lesser (but still) evil (I’m in the UK, we are able to vote “none” which I will be doing if there is no one on the ballot who represents me), but you don’t get to pat yourself on the back for it as if you’ve just stormed the beach on D day and singlehandedly defeated fascism, because that’s nowhere near the truth, which is that you’ve just participated in a bit of theatre where you were given an illusion of choice. You being uncomfortable doesn’t change that.
It could change you, if you decide to engage the discomfort instead of ignoring it, you can start here:
https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/10/14/liberalism-and-fascism-partners-in-crime/
People who think voting doesn’t matter are the ones that make it a reality. Everyone who shows up to not vote, or throw a protest vote, make it that much easier for the fanatics who do show up to get their way.
It’s not a perfect system, but refusing to participate doesn’t make it better. And “patting yourself on the back” because you decided you’d rather support your pride and ego instead of change (imperfect as it always is) is no less a sign of delusion than believing one election for one position is all that matters.
Every election matters. From local dog-catcher to state reps to president.
but refusing to participate
Who said anything about not participating. All anarchists I know are at most lukewarm on voting but put more effort into political change by organizing that all the votes in all the elections of a lifetime combined.
The election system doesn’t really change anything and makes people complicit by giving them the illusion of a democratic process that’s actually worth a damn.
It doesn’t change anything because people of action don’t participate. Voter participation is shockingly low for a supposedly “free” population. It’s not the only thing that matters, but it does a whole lot more than screaming from the rooftops about how much of a fool other people are for actually participating.
When the preferences of economic elites and the stands of organized interest groups are controlled for, the preferences of the average American appear to have only a minuscule, near-zero, statistically non-significant impact upon public policy.
We get it bro, youre the arbiter of truth. Voting is meaningless, so don’t do anything other than bitch and moan about everything.
I don’t think anybody is legitimately saying that voting blue is the end of the matter. Activism is way more than that–it’s attending local board meetings and making yourself heard, getting involved with your local/state parties to push for change, communicating with your elected representative (even, and especially if, they disagree with your position), attending donstrations and protests, volunteering for your preferred candidate’s campaign, voting, and most importantly–never giving up, even if it takes decades. If your preferred candidate loses in the primary, you immediately switch to the next closest candidate and start campaigning for them and pushing them towards your preferred policies. If a referendum you support loses, immediately start pushing for a similar referendum in the next election that tweaks the wording to avoid the reason why it lost last time. And so on, and so forth, across all the various levels of government.
This exact playbook is what got Roe overturned. Religious mutters pushed, and pushed, and pushed. They voted in lockstep for the farthest-right candidate in the primary, and if they lost in the primary they voted for the farthest right candidate in the general. They protested outside abortion clinics daily. They pushed and pushed, and over the course of 50 years they gradually transformed an entire political party from having roughly equal representation of pro-choice and anti-choice candidates to one where supporting a nationwide 15-week abortion ban with no exceptions is considered “moderate.”
I think a lot of people actually are saying that voting blue is the end of the matter. When you ask people who hate leftists what they are doing besides voting for Biden, most have no answer.
Yeah, because they’re lazy, and/or don’t have the ability to wage a sustained campaign. That’s the vast majority of voters on both sides–myself included, sadly, though in my case it’s largely because I’m afraid that a furry getting involved in a campaign would do more harm than good. Did you think every (or even a majority) of single-issue pro-birth voters were on the picket lines? Hell no. Most voters cast a vote, maybe in the primary (but usually just the general election, and only in the presidential elections) and that’s pretty much it.
And for the record, I absolutely don’t hate leftists, I agree with the vast majority of leftist positions, and I think protesting and advocating like this is a critical part of creating change. I just feel like it’s just as important to practice harm reduction and push from the inside, too.
“Sure, I made the ongoing genocide worse, but at least I didn’t vote for GENOCIDE JOE” - Useful idiots for the Israeli far-right
Is PugJesus hired by the DNC? David Brock’s Correct The Record part deux?
I think it would be fun if every person on Reddit and Lemmy accused of being a paid shill was actually a paid shill. Basically, Reddit and Lemmy would be huge job creators and wouldn’t hurt anyone because everyone was shilling at each other for money.
