At risk of being a dork I’ll also compare this to Star Trek (largely because OP is a clear fan). Both series are really timeless and impactful imo because they portray people as almost supremely emotionally intelligent. Everyone is very professional when they need to be - capable of great emotional restraint, but also deeply empathetic and caring and ‘tender’ when the time is right.
I mean Gimli is supposed to be the “emotional hothead” of the Fellowship and he’s literally more chill and emotionally controlled than most of the people you run into working retail
As someone who spent time in the military, I know exactly what you mean.
I wish the people I worked with were 25% as competent, rational, and level headed as the crew of the Enterprise.
Edit: Spelling
It’s funny, when I was a fresh college grad I actually considered joining the millitary because I really did have a desire for that competent, almost bureaucratic professionalism and mature outlook.
Then I kind of got my heads out of the clouds and realized diction and reality are pretty separate
It’s almost embarrassing to admit, but TNG was a factor for me in finding emotional maturity.
I was a happy, naive child that was lucky to get to 8 before everything sorta fell apart. Parents divorced, sexual abuse from within the extended family by different people, having to toughen up at school due to the emotional issues starting to crop up, abandoned by a parent because of their addiction, and even the social pressure during the satanic panic (this was obviously the 80’s).
Somehow, I did manage to keep some of the happy-go-lucky and naivete, but otherwise I had a rough time reigning in my temper and sometimes would break into tears from being overwhelmed (alone, obviously, because I had to be manly).
When I got into watching TNG, I really admired Picard as a character template, and worked on some of my own self perceived character flaws, and why I acted the way I did. Essentially, looking for the causes and not the symptoms. It was the start of a growth that continues still. His morality and introspection as an archetype gave me hope.
A therapist surely would’ve been a better way to go about it, but those weren’t really much of an option for us back then.
I wouldn’t be embarrassed about that at all. TNG also showed me the world I wanted to build for the future.
But Scully and Mulder never succeed and demonstrating paranormal phenomena to anyone.
Television in general can be “competency porn”. Nobody speaks to each other in real life with the attentiveness and thoughtfulness of TV show characters. Most people are devoid of empathy and bad at conversation. If you try to be as attentive and witty and empathetic as characters on TV (the ones at least that aren’t written to be terrible people a la IASIP) people will think you’re autistic.
turn it around, only shitty people tend to be promoted to such positions, it’s like the saying that the best president is one who doesn’t want the position.
capable of great emotional restraint, but also deeply empathetic and caring and ‘tender’ when the time is right
Then there’s Beverly who wanted Worf to live as a cripple and would deny him both an honorable death and a chance at a normal life, all because she couldn’t reconcile her views with those of a different culture. That episode still pisses me off to no end.
I’ll never forget the time I ran into an old friend of mine and I went to give him a hug and he awkwardly laughed and said uh, no, and shook my hand.
We’re still very good friends and we send several texts to each other every week.
But it’s a terrible feeling when you instinctively go to hug someone with zero sexual feelings and get instantly and reflexively rejected. I don’t blame my friend. I blame our fucked up culture.
'Murica: where we love our guns more than we love our school children. Is it any wonder men can’t hug here.
My goddamn dad does this to me. Like I made a conscious decision years ago to give him hugs because I felt like it was bullshit to not show him affection. After a few years he started intercepting me and now forces the handshake.
He also became radically conservative in that time…
I don’t know your friend, but I just don’t like people touching me in general. I’ve had people get upset that I won’t hug them, but my boundaries are valid and should be respected. Not everyone wants to hug.
I understand where you’re coming from, and your boundaries should be respected. Which is why I did not make an issue out of it. Like I said, we’re still very good friends. And when he waved me off I just laughed awkwardly back and went with it.
And…I know him really well. It isn’t that he doesn’t like being touched. He, like a lot of men in America, is super phobic about anything within 500 miles of “gay”.
That phobia shit is ridiculous. My first roommate was an openly gay guy (I’m straight), and the number of questions I got about my living situation or discomfort some clowns had about coming over was absurd. I thought folks had gotten somewhat better about it by now, but I guess not. Sad to hear.
You’re friend might be afraid of “gay” touching, I wouldn’t know. But I do think that can also be an easy way to explain away someone’s boundaries without understanding the complexity of the behaviors involved.
I have fairly strong boundaries, and as a general rule I don’t want people hugging me. This isn’t because there is something sexual about the hug, but because I don’t want the unwelcome close physical contact. A lot of people get to the point of welcoming that kind of contact faster than I do, and that’s fine, good for them. But that doesn’t make my comfort level less valid. And critically, one thing that makes it so hard is the social expectation, the idea that there is something wrong with saying no, and the implication that you should let people do these things that make you uncomfortable. In fact some people will ignore those boundaries and act like it’s doing you a favor, as though willfully inflicting themselves on others is supposed to make people less defensive.
And yet, if someone is having a hard time and needs an arm around their shoulder, I’m there. I will absolutely hug someone who is hurting and needs to be comforted. I’m a very caring person, and I don’t have a problem with that kind of physical contact when it’s for someone else’s benefit, as long as it’s my choice to offer it.
Sexuality only really enters into it in that a bit of sexual attraction can also quickly overcome those boundaries. It’s easy to welcome intimate contact with someone when a primitive part of your brain is trying to nudge you into doing whatever it takes to get this person naked and pressed against you. It’s a specific desire overriding the general preference for boundaries, not the context for all physical contact.
Same, I don’t even like handshakes. I’ll happily accept a fist bump. I’m different around my wife and kid, because I don’t open up like that for just anyone—not even the rest of my family, long story I don’t feel like telling. Doesn’t mean I’m not emotionally unavailable; on the contrary, my coworkers are happy to have me on their team because I am very much the opposite of that, I am empathetic and just want everyone’s day to go by as smoothly as it can.
I think you have to accept that people have different boundaries on how they want to show affection to different kinds of relationships, and that this doesn’t mean they don’t love you.
I’ve been very clear in my replies that I do respect those boundaries. Some people don’t want to be touched. This has been heard, understood, respected by me, and there is zero counter-argument from me. There is no lack of understanding or need to correct me on this point.
And the incident I recalled did no long-term damage to our friendship. It was a hurtful moment, I got over it, I didn’t push the issue, and we’re still friends.
The point of the OP’s post and my first comment is to try and address how unfortunate it is that the cultural default is: men hugging is icky and gay.
I agree with a lot of what you say, but your last line is ridiculous. Everyone in LotR was armed to the teeth, and that was no hindrance to expressing their feelings for one another.
Its not about the weapons it’s about the weapon culture. In the LOTR they respected the weapons and their purpose, simple.
Pretty sure the goodly people like humans, elves, dwarves, and Hobbits didn’t mow down their own kids with crossbows on a regular basis like we do with our guns.
Historically there’s been a shitload of children slaughtered with swords and arrows.
I’m used to hugging my friends, and saying ‘Love ya, bud.’ I never thought that was weird, as my dad is fairly physically affectionate, until my high school girlfriend had her dad give us a ride. He was absolutely bewildered at the behavior as I said goodbye to my friends.
That’s what happens when a gentleman who fought in WWI and dreamt of a cottage writes fantasy.
Sure, the last time I tried to be tender and emotional like this my wife mocked me for crying. Do I wish for close relationships like this with my fellow men, yes but there’s no room for it for some of us. Toxic masculinity is also expressed by the women in our society (USA)
So what if you get mocked for not being “manly”? Man up and double down. Tell her a real man knows it’s ok to show emotions from time to time
You can’t demand people accept you because they just won’t. If this guy’s wife doesn’t respect emotional expression that’s not likely changing.
I know that’s an extreme comment but I couldn’t imagine being with someone where I have to be guarded or keep walls up, that’s really unhealthy.
There is no reality where I would expose myself to that kind of abuse, because it is abuse. Anyone mocked for having emotions is being abused.
I can’t speak for anyone else, but I would find far more contentment being alone and free to cry when needed than being afraid to show emotion around someone who is supposed to love and support me.
I suppose I’m lucky to be with someone who has expressed satisfaction at the fact I don’t bottle up my emotions.
I mean, the problem here is that if you want emotionally available men you have to treat men better.
Good luck getting people to do that.
Look up Troy Hawke on Instagram and use his act as a guide.
You must be new here. This is a comment section. Others call it a thread. You use it to comment on things.
It’s cool. I’ve been here a while. Enjoy the incels.
The answer is “incels”. You’re talking to incels.
Enjoy the gratification online, but it’s gross.
