I’m getting a lot of ‘but my car is more convenient’ arguments lately, and I’m struggling to convey why that doesn’t make sense.
Specifically how to explain to people that: Sure, if you are able to drive, and can afford it, and your city is designed to, and subsidizes making it easy to drive and park, then it’s convenient. But if everyone does it then it quickly becomes a tragedy of the commons situation.
I thought of one analogy that is: It would be ‘more convenient’ if I just threw my trash out the window, but if we all started doing that then we’d quickly end up in a mess.
But I feel like that doesn’t quite get at the essence of it. Any other ideas?
Your car is more convenient because they designed it that way. Visit Europe and everyone’s like “get a eurail pass, it’s so convenient!” But here we don’t have the infrastructure so alternative transport sucks, because we decided to make the car, king, instead of building railway lines.
It is political at heart. You just can’t pit the “power of the consumer” against industry interests and expect an ideal outcome. The Not Just Bikes guy, from what I hear, has given up hope for America at this point. Whatever happens, I hope other nations can learn from our example: Cave to auto and oil interests at your own peril.
🙄 people just like their cars, it’s not some evil plot. Evening is big oils fault, never people meeting choices.
The major car manufacturers have literally been collaborating for the better part of a century, along with oil companies, to keep Americans dependent on cars. It’s a well-documented fact. Even long before Citizebs United made corporate bribery legal, they’ve been using the state’s power to quell protests, destroy non-car infrastructure, and outlaw use of our streets for anything except cars.
While I do hope Europe is years ahead of the USA, I don’t know any people who say it’s convenient to do a eurail pass. Where I live there are the same problems as in the USA, the car is 1,5-2 times quicker than public transport. That’s just too much wastes time to be bothered to go by public transport.
Depends on the types of commutes you do and where you are.
For kindergarden to work, for me, car and public is basically equal, but it is like 7km. If it is a carshare / rental car then I will end up slower because finding a spot to park is pain, this of course is negated if it were my car since Id have (paid btw at my last employer) employee parking.
It would of course be easier and faster to get the kinds to kindergarden via car, but this is a 15 min walking distance we are talking here.
There are tradeoffs, but ultimately I choose transit and just grab a rental if I actually need a car, which is rare. Mind you I live in the city and the moment I move to a house outside of the city I am getting a car.
I have to say I prefer transit, no stress, no thinking about times and routes, I can read a book, study or just meditate. Not to mention that the costs are sooo much lower. In the city I travel all month for 15 euros.
You talk to about Europe like it was a monolith. Where are I live cars are hugely more convenient than public transport.
Public transportation may be more convenient if you live and work on city centers, everything else not so much
I’m curious where you live. I was traveling well outside of the popular cities to small towns, and bikes seemed like a nicer option even when there was no tram (and there often was)
What city?
I think your approach is wrong.
Lemmy has too small a presence to influence the larger populace. You are shouting at a highway from a grass field across town.
People love convenience. So much they built trash chutes in their buildings to throw away their garbage. If someone implemented a system where you could throw out your garbage through the window, it would be an absolute hit.
What you need to do is sell the convenience. Make it cooler, cheaper, easier and/or faster.
People aren’t convinced by doing the right thing, that’s just masochism.
And they aren’t convinced by the “sacrifice now, get paid later” convention… Well, actually they are else scams wouldn’t be so successful. Anyway, people are dumb so the key to success is hitting that dumbness the right way to make it resonate in concert.
Build an orchestra of convenience, maestro!
Yeah, that’s pretty much how it is. People will take what they perceive to be the fastest, safest, and most convenient route from A to B, and they don’t really think about the long term cost or externalities of it.
Some of it is also about politics, particularly in cases where surburbs and cities share a political “unit”. So you get a situation where people in the city want walkability, but surburbanites vote against it so they can continue to drive into the city without any perceived obstacles.
The car is convenient. Until you have to park. Or, if there’s enough parking, until you have to run all the utilities between all the places that are now much more spread out. And do maintenance on all those pipes and wires and parking lots and every widening roads between those destinations.
Because my car is convenient. Nothing you will do in our life time is going to magically convince half the country to invest trillions to make public transport more accessible. So it’s about harm reduction at that point. You will never convenience anyone with these tertiary root cause shit.
